[Manga] Chapter 414 Discussion

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

I think that was a miss trans, the trans I read said some along the lines of "Water-style shinobi, eh...usin' the turf to your advantage."

Ahh yes, that would seem to make much more sense.

You know, the more I read the translations, the more I think I should learn how to read Japanese...

[Freya]

Yeah basically there's water around them so he has an "advantage"

Yeah hit and run for your lives. Anything more than that then............

[Quzor]

Well, they can't really kill him, can they? I mean, every Akatsuki member who has captured a Jinchuuriki thus far, has taken great care to not kill them. If the Jinchuurki have to be alive to extract the Bijuu, Sasuke can't afford to have Amaterasu kill the 8-tails. Operating under the assumption that Madara is watching Sasuke at this point, killing the 8-tails would probably result in "Hawk"'s imminent death.

The again, Sasuke did say he's only using Akatsuki to his own ends, so who knows. Maybe getting his ass kicked, wearing his team out, and blowing up Hachibi with Amaterasu is all part of his master plan...

Sure...and maybe the earth is flat...

[Rawrz]

"Sasukes Emotional Amaterasu" panel made me giggle.Sasuke is now officially emo, kishimato approves.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Quzor

Well, they can't really kill him, can they? I mean, every Akatsuki member who has captured a Jinchuuriki thus far, has taken great care to not kill them. If the Jinchuurki have to be alive to extract the Bijuu, Sasuke can't afford to have Amaterasu kill the 8-tails. Operating under the assumption that Madara is watching Sasuke at this point, killing the 8-tails would probably result in "Hawk"'s imminent death.

The again, Sasuke did say he's only using Akatsuki to his own ends, so who knows. Maybe getting his ass kicked, wearing his team out, and blowing up Hachibi with Amaterasu is all part of his master plan...

Sure...and maybe the earth is flat...

Amaterasu doesn't have to kill the guy, Sasuke can always blink and cancel the jutsu when he thinks it is enough to capture the HJ.

[demon espio]

Originally Posted by Luce

uhhh...Suigetsu isn't the one that turned into a kid, he is more or less a puddle right now. It is Juugo that changed into a kid, though it is still confusing as to how that happened.

oh yea thx not much of a team hawk fan so you know thr not what i look deeply at the most but i know there guide lines.

One of Juugo's flashbacks explained how he considers Sasuke as a sort of re-incarnation of Kimimaro. Kimimaro gave his life to bring Sasuke to Orochimaru, who had taken his place in Orochimaru's eyes. In that sense, Sasuke is the new Kimimaro. In that sense, there's a part of Kimimaro living in Sasuke from Juugo's point of view

hmmmm juugo is messed up

And I agree that turning Juugo into a kid was really random. It would've made more sense if he became more shriveled from the effort of fusing with Sasuke (not neccessarily age faster).

as long as we dont end up with the show as karin carry-ing him around everywhere and them looking after him then its ok i suppose.

Giant slugs iyho? Don't forget she's supposedly uber strong in Genjutsu.

yea but the slugs tsunade has and genjutsu kunerai used so i know the genjutsu bit not an argument rlly but i mean she doesnt have her own thing like her own summoning or her own bloodline you know she needs sumit that her own and no1 else has.

I agree it's pretty weird for Naruto to be getting the hang of controlling natural chakra faster than Jiraya. I was under the impression that was much harder to control compared to normal chakra. What happened? Did Naruto just suddenly become a genius of chakra control? Or did eating one of Itachi's crows have something to do with that?

hahaha i like that if only everyone could eat itachis crows than naruto would be so much more of a high powered show. but yea but unless you say his 9 nails helped him but i dont think that would happen cuz thts still just normall chakra

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Freedan

I agree it's pretty weird for Naruto to be getting the hang of controlling natural chakra faster than Jiraya. I was under the impression that was much harder to control compared to normal chakra. What happened? Did Naruto just suddenly become a genius of chakra control? Or did eating one of Itachi's crows have something to do with that?

Well, it might be due to the training that Jiraiya put him through, specifically learning how to work with the foreign chakra supply from the Kyuubi could have taught Naruto how to more eaisily incorporate outside chakra into his own supply. In the end I guess we will have to wait for an official explanation from the Old Toad Sage.

[SuperiorX]

Originally Posted by demon espio

hmmmm juugo is messed up




as long as we dont end up with the show as karin carry-ing him around everywhere and them looking after him then its ok i suppose.




yea but the slugs tsunade has and genjutsu kunerai used so i know the genjutsu bit not an argument rlly but i mean she doesnt have her own thing like her own summoning or her own bloodline you know she needs sumit that her own and no1 else has.


hahaha i like that if only everyone could eat itachis crows than naruto would be so much more of a high powered show. but yea but unless you say his 9 nails helped him but i dont think that would happen cuz thts still just normall chakra

naruto has himself and 3 clones doing this so asuming j man used no clones at all naruto will grasp this 4 times faster then him.

[wtfftw]

Sasuke totally fails(no planning/strategy and stuff).

It wasnt even cool to read. Sasuke isnt using his brains either. The fight with deidara itachi was way more deep then this. this is like i just gonna attack hope to win no plan pfffff.



I think juugo and suigetsu earn some respect cuz they are holded the fight off for sasuke. Why im saying they earn respect cuz i believe this * fully transformed demon is stronger then naruto's 4 tails. The 8 tail also spammed shot a nuke. And well its 8 tails naruto was on 4. Even though 8 and 9 tails have totally different abilities specifications and stuff. I do think that this demon is like the strongest transformed demon atm aside from the fully transformed kyuubi

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by wtfftw

Sasuke totally fails(no planning/strategy and stuff).

It wasnt even cool to read. Sasuke isnt using his brains either. The fight with deidara itachi was way more deep then this. this is like i just gonna attack hope to win no plan pfffff.

Don't you think this had a purpose? Sasuke being Mr. Ego has become quite arrogant and too confident after his rampage Orochi->Deidara->Itachi. This just needed to happen to him, to return him in the real world. And more importantly because of the plot, we see him remembering his former team, so something has began in his mind which will eventually lead him back to Konoha. His current team is really not an evil-team, they are mainly children who were too much under Orochi's influence, but they can still change so much that they can even join the "will of fire".

[demon espio]

Originally Posted by SuperiorX

naruto has himself and 3 clones doing this so asuming j man used no clones at all naruto will grasp this 4 times faster then him.

oh yea good point but tht just assuming that jiraiya didnt use clones no reason why he wouldnt tho

Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok

I think they're reffering to the fac that Sasuke and Kimimaro's curse seals were referred to as being polar opposites. I forgot which was which, but I know one is heaven, and the other is Earth....

kimimaro has earth and sasuke and anko has heaven
but yea i see you point

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Don't you think this had a purpose? Sasuke being Mr. Ego has become quite arrogant and too confident after his rampage Orochi->Deidara->Itachi. This just needed to happen to him, to return him in the real world. And more importantly because of the plot, we see him remembering his former team, so something has began in his mind which will eventually lead him back to Konoha. His current team is really not an evil-team, they are mainly children who were too much under Orochi's influence, but they can still change so much that they can even join the "will of fire".

That is not quite true. Sasuke's arrogance over his "rampage" was already thoroughly crushed by Itachi and Madara. In Sasuke's fight with Itachi, Sasuke learned that he did not defeat Orochimaru, but rather the snake was waiting to ambush Sasuke from behind, and if it was not for Itachi, Sasuke would be gone. Then, Madara burst Sasuke's bubble completely by more or less telling him that Itachi threw the match and pulled almost every one of his punches. So, Sasuke walking into a match with HJ feeling any amount of arrogance concerning his fights in the past makes little sense, considering the fact that Sasuke only really won one of his three major fights.

No, I expect that Sasuke just had regular old Sharingan-arrogance (his "I'm more special" arrogance), and this fight might have finally beat out that arrogance (which Lee beat out of him in Part I, but had a resurgence by the end of Part I and has existed throughout Part II).

[OtseisRagnarok]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Don't you think this had a purpose? Sasuke being Mr. Ego has become quite arrogant and too confident after his rampage Orochi->Deidara->Itachi. This just needed to happen to him, to return him in the real world. And more importantly because of the plot, we see him remembering his former team, so something has began in his mind which will eventually lead him back to Konoha. His current team is really not an evil-team, they are mainly children who were too much under Orochi's influence, but they can still change so much that they can even join the "will of fire".

I like your point about Sasuke not having a plan. I could really see the arrogance happening there. But If he does go back to join Konoha, I'll be severely disappointed.

Also, was anyone else happy to see them mention the Raikage? The only villages that really get any kind of mention are Leaf and Sand. It was nice to see a mention of another governing faction.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by james0246

That is not quite true. Sasuke's arrogance over his "rampage" was already thoroughly crushed by Itachi and Madara. In Sasuke's fight with Itachi, Sasuke learned that he did not defeat Orochimaru, but rather the snake was waiting to ambush Sasuke from behind, and if it was not for Itachi, Sasuke would be gone.

Err no. Sasuke already knew Orochimaru was still somewhere inside hence why he was using his own chakra to suppress him. After what happen to Sasuke in his fight with Itachi the whole "I've taken over " stuff should have made sense to you. About Madara I agree.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by wtfftw

Sasuke totally fails(no planning/strategy and stuff).

It wasnt even cool to read. Sasuke isnt using his brains either. The fight with deidara itachi was way more deep then this. this is like i just gonna attack hope to win no plan pfffff.

The 8 tails pretty much took what Sasuke and his team can throw at him, overcame it, with out a plan or strategy. Sasuke strongest strength is figuring out the enemies plan/strategy and breaking it apart. Or having info on that guy and forming a Plan tho prep time something Sasuke does not have since he does not know anything about the 8 tails beside the fact he is like Naruto, so there won't be a plan like he had against Itachi, or any strategy breaking because the 8 tails does not have a strategy.

So what happen to Sasuke is pretty much justified.

[SajberToent]

Right now there's too many things not making any sense whatsoever. Why couldn't they just have made the eight tails jinchuuriki into a blind character or something, if they now felt that he needed to become an obstacle for the Hawk?

- Oh no, they had to make him counter the mangekyo with a lame excuse such as "I have two minds" (probably only to justify Naruto beating Sasuke later on as the story develops).

However, I wish that was the only thing bothering me. What about Naruto then? "Oh I found out how to make years of progress in mere days, aw hell screw that crap I'm gonna go do something completely different instead. BECAUSE THAT'S MY WAY OF THE NINJA!!11" "Especially seeing how Jiraya, despite having these s'posedly great sage powers, got his ass handed to him".

Ah well, at least they justified the existance of jinchuurikis. Why would anyone put in such an effort and take the risk of creating one if it'll only produce a weakling like Naruto and Gaara? (And no, Gaara's not weak. Just not THAT powerful, btw who thinks he's still a jinchuuriki?)

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by SajberToent

- Oh no, they had to make him counter the mangekyo with a lame excuse such as "I have two minds" (probably only to justify Naruto beating Sasuke later on as the story develops).

it's not that easy, more like I have a Chakra monster living in side me, and I know how to control it.

However, I wish that was the only thing bothering me. What about Naruto then? "Oh I found out how to make years of progress in mere days, aw hell screw that crap I'm gonna go do something completely different instead. BECAUSE THAT'S MY WAY OF THE NINJA!!11" "Especially seeing how Jiraya, despite having these s'posedly great sage powers, got his ass handed to him".

So the J-man was suppose to win of something with those powers?

[SajberToent]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

it's not that easy, more like I have a Chakra monster living in side me, and I know how to control it.

The same kind of Chakra monster that s'posedly Madara was able to control. Now, you're free to argue that Madara's sharingan is more potent than Sasukes, but still, it does cling a bit poorly in my ears.

So the J-man was suppose to win of something with those powers

It's not like we really learned much of Pein's abilities from that fight. Nevertheless, we did learn that sage powers don't cut it versus that kind of advisary. Why focus on them then? How about, obtaining a set of Hokage level jutsus, sasuke-like speed and Gai's level of taijutsu? That or actually make use of Naruto's jinchuuriki powers, certainly Konoha must have known of the eight tails jinchuuriki and the potential in Naruto? But then again, maybe Naruto is just too unstable to use them reliably even with years worth of training...

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by SajberToent

The same kind of Chakra monster that s'posedly Madara was able to control. Now, you're free to argue that Madara's sharingan is more potent than Sasukes, but still, it does cling a bit poorly in my ears.

when was Madara ever able to control the 8 tails? and besides Madara has EMS that could be why he is able to control the 9 tails.

It's not like we really learned much of Pein's abilities from that fight. Nevertheless, we did learn that sage powers don't cut it versus that kind of advisary. Why focus on them then? How about, obtaining a set of Hokage level jutsus, sasuke-like speed and Gai's level of taijutsu? That or actually make use of Naruto's jinchuuriki powers, certainly Konoha must have known of the eight tails jinchuuriki and the potential in Naruto? But then again, maybe Naruto is just too unstable to use them reliably even with years worth of training...

Your seriously underrating Naruto.

The J-mans sage powers didn't cut it against Pein fact, that does not mean not Naruto who will master sage art will fail also. Unless you think Naruto is going to bust out with the same powers and abilities like the J-man, and the Kyuubi Key thing will make sure Naruto master's his Kyuubi chakra.IMO

I don't think konoha knows about the 8 tailed jinchuuriki, it was stated that they are secret weapons.IIRC.

[SajberToent]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

when was Madara ever able to control the 8 tails? and besides Madara has EMS that could be why he is able to control the 9 tails.

He never did but it's reasonable to assume that he would be able to considering how the nine tails is a more powerful beast, nor did the eight tails jinchuuriki ever merit his anti-genjutsu ability to the eight tails, but rather as a general ability for jinchuurikis.

As for the EMS it's no different from a normal Mangekyo Sharingan, except for that it does not rob the user of his eyesight. We haven't seen anything like Sasuke's new Sharingan, it may very well be another version of Madara's EMS or something even greater.

Your seriously underrating Naruto.

The J-mans sage powers didn't cut it against Pein fact, that does not mean not Naruto who will master sage art will fail also. Unless you think Naruto is going to bust out with the same powers and abilities like the J-man, and the Kyuubi Key thing will make sure Naruto master's his Kyuubi chakra.IMO

I don't think konoha knows about the 8 tailed jinchuuriki, it was stated that they are secret weapons.IIRC.

In what way am I underrating Naruto? He's still got the same arsenal of jutsus that he had as a genin (no wait he's still a genin) and his speed nor taijutsu hasn't (relatively at least) improved either. He just got an ultra-1-hit-KO move but since he can't use it liberally that changes nothing, he's still weak and can't compete with the likes of Sasuke. What the hell did he do for 3 whole years?