Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@arkhangelsk

It's not going to happen.

Because even if Hayate just rolls over, there are people that won't.

Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.

And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...

Nobody's hanging her out to dry.

[Kha][/Kha]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Not to mention Jail's already killed those "higher than her supporters" who are more than willing to hang her dry, if necessary.

But whatever, Hayate getting a relative-not-so-good end is almost out of the question, even if it's the rational outlook of the situation.

[Kha][/Kha]

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

He killed the three brains and Regius is incapacitated, but that still leaves the remaining TSAB senior staff who will be desperate to stick this mess onto as few people as low on the ladder as possible so as to minimize the disastrous loss of prestige in this incident

It would have been possible to court-martial her after episode 17. But now it's too late: she'll save the world in a little while, and then she might be too much of a hero to be a good scapegoat.

Or maybe the TSAB will say something like "All is Hayate's fault, but since she repaired her errors and we're very nice guys, we'll overlook her mistake this time."

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

He killed the three brains and Regius is incapacitated, but that still leaves the remaining TSAB senior staff who will be desperate to stick this mess onto as few people as low on the ladder as possible so as to minimize the disastrous loss of prestige in this incident - if the TSAB goes down, they go down too. Those will be the trail people.

If Hayate goes down, they go down.

It's that simple as well.

Love is a powerful force, makes people dangerous.

Chrono, Fate, Acous... All investigators.

[Jimmy C]

There's another reason they can't court-martial Hayate. Ground Forces will need some heroes to trot out to the public if they want to come out of this as anything more than the incompetents they are. Since RF6 appears to be singlehandedly saving GF HQ and taking down the Cradle at the same time, they get to be the ones. Therefore, they can't praise her and court-martial her at the same time. They can't even force her to resign because she never turned her forces against the TSAB itself.

[arkhangelsk]

Who knows. Maybe Seven Arcs will shaft her one last time and leave the whole blow up Cradle thing to Nanoha and Fate. Since I can't even be sure she gave effective commands so far ... hmm...

Anyway, legitimately, stopping the world from ending would not end Hayate's culpability in this. Still, I would agree in the unlikely event of my court martial scenario coming to pass, most likely the punishment will be light due to this - maybe the loss of two ranks or something.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

There's another reason they can't court-martial Hayate. Ground Forces will need some heroes to trot out to the public if they want to come out of this as anything more than the incompetents they are. Since RF6 appears to be singlehandedly saving GF HQ and taking down the Cradle at the same time, they get to be the ones. Therefore, they can't praise her and court-martial her at the same time. They can't even force her to resign because she never turned her forces against the TSAB itself.

Here's a realistic solution. Court-martial the commander. Make the heroes Nanoha and Fate, succeeding despite Hayate's incompetence. Generally, junior officers make good heroes. Senior officers make good scapegoats. Generals should be above it all but neverthless give themselves medals anyway.

Given how Seven Arcs likes to shaft Hayate, this at least will not be an unfavorable idea to them.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Ahhh.... I see where this is going...

Okay okay...

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Ahhh.... I see where this is going...

Okay okay...

And your point?

[arkhangelsk]

He means the brick wall, me.

He just doesn't know how to have fun

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

And your point?

My... Point ?

Well... Usually when I see where it's going... I know where it's going

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

He means the brick wall, me.

He just doesn't know how to have fun

Wrong, I just understand where it's going.

[Estavali]

Sigh, all this talk about Hayate's shafting makes me very sad, to the point of crying, seriously . I believe we can all think of better ways of developing her in StrikerS, especially with her unique position as a young commander and an Ancient Belkan mage-knight who feels that the higher-ups only see her as merely a convenient tool. The A's to StrikerS manga gave me so much hope of her taking a darker path and getting some serious character development, and the anime has dashed it all to smithereens .

Though she's not the only one whom we should pity. Erio's human eel ability is very much left untouched on as well so far (if I'm not wrong, unlike Fate, he's the real natural lightning-user). If used well, that would no doubt give him a better edge in battle.

Come to think of it, in terms of story-telling, the manga seems to handle it in a much better manner than the anime. Not much useless debris, and details are presented in a straight-to-the-point manner imho.

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

My... Point ?

Well... Usually when I see where it's going... I know where it's going

Wrong, I just understand where it's going.

OK. So, in summary, the idea is that if noone understands what you says, noone will contradict it?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Though she's not the only one whom we should pity. Erio's human eel ability is very much left untouched on as well so far (if I'm not wrong, unlike Fate, he's the real natural lightning-user). If used well, that would no doubt give him a better edge in battle.

Well, what I've heard is that it's the same ability as Fate, to convert magic into Lightning.

But yeah, it's shafted to the point where it's almost non-existent... Even in the training sessions.

Originally Posted by Fabien

OK. So, in summary, the idea is that if noone understands what you says, noone will contradict it?

Reality is much simpler

I don't have a point, but I understand what arkhangelsk is doing.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Sigh, all this talk about Hayate's shafting makes me cry, seriously . I believe we can all think of better ways of developing her in StrikerS, especially with her unique position as a young commander and an Ancient Belkan mage-knight who feels that the higher-ups only see her as merely a convenient tool. The A's to StrikerS manga gave me so much hope of her taking a darker path and getting some serious character development, and the anime has dashed it all to smithereens .

Though she's not the only one whom we should pity. Erio's human eel ability is very much left untouched on as well so far (if I'm not wrong, unlike Fate, he's the real natural lightning-user). If used well, that would no doubt give him a better edge in battle.

Come to think of it, in terms of story-telling, the manga seems to handle it in a much better manner than the anime. Not much useless debris, and details are presented in a straight-to-the-point manner imho.

Well we expected too much of StrikerS.Yes,Erio may be special,but that is unexplored.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well, what I've heard is that it's the same ability as Fate, to convert magic into Lightning.

But yeah, it's shafted to the point where it's almost non-existent... Even in the training sessions.

Well, IIRC Fate can do that thanks to her magic training; while Erio's something inherent (you might even say it's somewhat like his IS ).

Originally Posted by Adr 00

Well we expected too much of StrikerS.Yes,Erio may be special,but that is unexplored.

Precisely! Think of all the fun we and Seven Arcs would have if the potential of those unexplored possibilities are squeezed dry to the last drop! Argh, thinking of all that waste makes me angry again!

*flips table*

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Adr 00

Well we expected too much of StrikerS.Yes,Erio may be special,but that is unexplored.

An interesting thought though, he's the only one with a big secret that the other Forwards don't know yet...

They still don't know he's a clone.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

An interesting thought though, he's the only one with a big secret that the other Forwards don't know yet...

They still don't know he's a clone.

Didn't he and Carol revealed their past to Tia, Subaru and Alto in manga chapter 9.5?

I would say that Subaru's secret was the last to be revealed (the sequence should be something like this: Tia, Carol and Eriol, Subaru).

[Nightengale]

Well, it's not Elio is really shafted... it's just that the "developing points" of him all goes to the SS02 instead.

Caro/Elio/Fate family development got shafter in animation (( for the sake of more moe~ boring NFV )) and got delegated to the Sound Stage (( which develops on Fate's upbringing insecurities, Caro and Elio's emotional attachment and love towards Fate, along with some Lightning battle showcase...in voices )) instead.

As for Elio's lightning conversion...I am starting to slightly wonder a little too. We saw it being used ONCE against Wendi in Form III, without so much of an explanation...

To be honest, I was slightly dissapointed with how they executed Elio's past. It had tons of potential to be tied in with a lot of things, giving him a potentially large plot importance all-around, but it took the "oh, just ANOTHER Project F boy who got jacked away by some unknown scientist that Fate already kicked his ass with" easy-to-close subplot.

Another case of "oh, looks like a potentially interesting sub-plot", but no, it's not important at all, most likely. It happened with "larger things" like Eihenjar, so why not Elio?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Estavali

Didn't he and Carol revealed their past to Tia, Subaru and Alto in manga chapter 9.5?

I would say that Subaru's secret was the last to be revealed (the sequence should be something like this: Tia, Carol and Eriol, Subaru).

EH?! They knew? I didn't know that...

Ah well, there goes that excitment...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT:

Wait, as in did they know exactly that he was part of Project F ? Or was it something like, found in creepy lab by Fate, brought up in her family...

That kind of boring stuff.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

EH?! They knew? I didn't know that...

Ah well, there goes that excitment...

His story is nothing special anyway. At least, there seems to be no hidden loops behind it, despite 'hints' that whoever jacked him away from the Mondials had connections to the 'law' coughtsabcough

If he was connected to say, TSAB High Council's dirty Artificial Mage biddings, Jail, Al-Hazard, Relic or whatever that links to the current storm of events, then maybe, but as it is...it really feels as if his Project F background was there for the sake of making him A LITTLE BIT special.

Because to be honest, if that's all there is to it of his backstory, he's not special. AT. ALL.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

His story is nothing special anyway. At least, there seems to be no hidden loops behind it, despite 'hints' that whoever jacked him away from the Mondials had connections to the 'law' coughtsablcough

If he was connected to say, TSAB High Council, Jail or whatever that links to the current storm of events, then maybe, but as it is...it really feels as if his Project F background was there for the sake of making him A LITTLE BIT special.

Because to be honest, if that's all there is to it of his backstory, he's not special. AT. ALL.

So they know he's a clone?