Code Geass World History & Geography Speculation

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I say the reverse, but please note the rest of my post, like I said Napoleon's Empire and alliances were never really stable so I wouldn't be surprised if after a time he made one too many people mad... <_<

Maybe the whole "I am Emperor" thing offended someone?
It's pretty risky starting a war against Nobles, only to declare yourself Royalty afterwards...

[Ronin Aquila]

Ludwig Beethoven was so mad in fact that he scratched out Napoleon's name in the symphony that had been deticated to the general.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Russia seems to have been in EU since the beginning.

The problem with Siberia is that in the XIXth century, it still was a "worthless" piece of land except for the fur trade.

It wasn't that worthless of a land if the Russian bothered to conquer it as early as the XVIIth century (by which time they had reached the Pacific Ocean). Southern Siberia feature extensive grazelands and temperate lands favorable to farming.

And during the XIXth century it became the focus of the development policy of the czars: that meant often forced dispacement of villages, and banishment of rebelious elites. The best proof of this interest in Siberia was the construction of the Transsiberian at the end of the XIXth century.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Maybe the whole "I am Emperor" thing offended someone?
It's pretty risky starting a war against Nobles, only to declare yourself Royalty afterwards...

Yeah, he was moslty refered as "The Usurper" by the other europeans monarchs.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by JMvS

It wasn't that worthless of a land if the Russian bothered to conquer it as early as the XVIIth century (by which time they had reached the Pacific Ocean). Southern Siberia feature extensive grazelands and temperate lands favorable to farming.

1. In our reality, it was mustly the Cossacks just going east and claiming the land. The Russian GOVERNMENT at first didn't even think of getting Siberia, until the Cossacks who went there reported the rich fur resources.

2. Southern Siberia is Chinese anyway, so that argument can't stand.

Originally Posted by JMvS

And during the XIXth century it became the focus of the development policy of the czars: that meant often forced dispacement of villages, and banishment of rebelious elites. The best proof of this interest in Siberia was the construction of the Transsiberian at the end of the XIXth century.

All the development of Siberia happened in the south, which is Chinese in this world, so again, no real appeal of a eastern advancement.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

1. In our reality, it was mustly the Cossacks just going east and claiming the land. The Russian GOVERNMENT at first didn't even think of getting Siberia, until the Cossacks who went there reported the rich fur resources.

2. Southern Siberia is Chinese anyway, so that argument can't stand.




All the development of Siberia happened in the south, which is Chinese in this world, so again, no real appeal of a eastern advancement.

Now hold on, indications would point more to the Chinese having just recently acquired this territory from the E.U while the war with Britannia was going on, given the previews from Newtype about the current political situation so you can't really say that, and no matter what we say the map does point to Russia having expanded and claimed Siberia in general anyway >_>

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Now hold on, indications would point more to the Chinese having just recently acquired this territory from the E.U while the war with Britannia was going on, given the previews from Newtype about the current political situation so you can't really say that, and no matter what we say the map does point to Russia having expanded and claimed Siberia in general anyway >_>

If we look at this map, which was shown in R2 Episode 2, southern Siberia was Chinese BEFORE EU was weakened, by the war that we're shown to in Episode 3.


Also, I said that southern Siberia was the only place worth living in. This has been a fact even in our world, and if China had southern Siberia, there would be no major incentive for anyone to move to Siberia to escape poverty.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

If we look at this map, which was shown in R2 Episode 2, southern Siberia was Chinese BEFORE EU was weakened, by the war that we're shown to in Episode 3.


Also, I said that southern Siberia was the only place worth living in. This has been a fact even in our world, and if China had southern Siberia, there would be no major incentive for anyone to move to Siberia to escape poverty.

But Siberia is claimed by the E.U though isn't it?

Plus I question the map, I really do, as it is just confusing sometimes, because Area 11 is occupied yet the war with the EU has been going on for a long time according to previews, then that Middle East country is still around even though it should be Area 18

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

But Siberia is claimed by the E.U though isn't it?

Claimed? I would say no. There's a difference between claiming and trying to steal land

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Plus I question the map, I really do, as it is just confusing sometimes, because Area 11 is occupied yet the war with the EU has been going on for a long time according to previews, then that Middle East country is still around even though it should be Area 18

Area 18 isn't still under complete control. Cornelia had to go back and forth from Area 11 to control the area before the Black Rebellion.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Claimed? I would say no. There's a difference between claiming and trying to steal land

What, I don't get it? You're saying the E.U expanded into former Chinese territory of something?

Area 18 isn't still under complete control. Cornelia had to go back and forth from Area 11 to control the area before the Black Rebellion.

That could work, but if control was the indication you'd think we'd see a difference in Area 11 since it's far from 'controlled'... >_>

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

If we look at this map, which was shown in R2 Episode 2, southern Siberia was Chinese BEFORE EU was weakened, by the war that we're shown to in Episode 3.


Also, I said that southern Siberia was the only place worth living in. This has been a fact even in our world, and if China had southern Siberia, there would be no major incentive for anyone to move to Siberia to escape poverty.

I agree about the map.

But even if they did not have the southern part of Siberia that was the most desirable to settle in. They still have a lot of taiga, an environment were poverty stricken canadians DID emigrate: even if it's only a freezing forest in winter and a damp swamp in summer, they could still grow something on it, and the prospect of having it's own land even in the remotest area IS a prospect for someone having nothing.

So as Britannia social structure would be a total deterrent, by late XIXth century Siberia might have been an usable Frontier for poverty stricken europeans. But at the same time, Africa also became available (Im talking about subsaharan africa or black africa, as northern africa would have been colonized in the first half of XIXth century, as in our world).

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

What, I don't get it? You're saying the E.U expanded into former Chinese territory of something?

No, I would say EU was trying to expand into southern Siberia, which could be one reason for China's long-standing hostilities with the EU.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

That could work, but if control was the indication you'd think we'd see a difference in Area 11 since it's far from 'controlled'... >_>

The difference was that Britannia had 7 years of "control" over Area 11 while Area 18 was controlled for 1 year at the most.

Originally Posted by JMvS

But even if they did not have the southern part of Siberia that was the most desirable to settle in. They still have a lot of taiga, an environment were poverty stricken canadians DID emigrate: even if it's only a freezing forest in winter and a damp swamp in summer, they could still grow something on it, and the prospect of having it's own land even in the remotest area IS a prospect for someone having nothing.

Canadians only started moving north due to the Gold at Yukon. Without such a jackpot, I doubt that Arctic Canada would be as settled as today.

Originally Posted by JMvS

So as Britannia social structure would be a total deterrent, by late XIXth century Siberia might have been an usable Frontier for poverty stricken europeans. But at the same time, Africa also became available.

For the last time: Northern Siberia is completely unsuitable for a lasting settlement in the 19th century. Only since the 1930's as norther Siberia been able to have large amount of people.


Really, I do wish people would at least KNOW the history of Siberia beofre thinking it as some Wild East, full of empty land for anyone to settle down.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

No, I would say EU was trying to expand into southern Siberia, which could be one reason for China's long-standing hostilities with the EU.

Hmm, well, not like that matters in the end since Britannia seems to have invaded from Alaska

The difference was that Britannia had 7 years of "control" over Area 11while Area 18 was controlled for 1 year at the most.

I denote that it is strange that an Area is not just marked as an Area if it is claimed as a part of their territory. <_<

Another thing, what about the territory from the E.U, they've been at war for awhile now, you think Britannia would have been marked as carving a good chunk from them by now >_>

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Another thing, what about the territory from the E.U, they've been at war for awhile now, you think Britannia would have been marked as carving a good chunk from them by now >_>

Well, two things:

1. EU has a legendary commander stationed at El Alamein checking the Britannian advance into North Africa, meaning that Britannia probably had at least the western part of Area 18 for a long time.


2. The invasion into Italy (if that was what Suzaku was doing in R2 Episode 3) happened after the map.

[KrimzonStriker]

But if we examine the invasion chart, Britannia came in from the south and north of Africa, so wouldn't that be the more likely axis from where they began pushing into North Africa, probably moving to severing the Suez Canal in Egypt or something? Perhaps this is even the reason why the invaded Area 18 in order to begin enclosing on El Alamain? >_>

Does it necessarily have to be Italy, I mean both the Dutch and the Germans were there if I recall

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

For the last time: Northern Siberia is completely unsuitable for a lasting settlement in the 19th century. Only since the 1930's as norther Siberia been able to have large amount of people.


Really, I do wish people would at least KNOW the history of Siberia beofre thinking it as some Wild East, full of empty land for anyone to settle down.

Up to this point I wasn't advocating large settlements like those of southern Siberia to occur in Northern Siberia. But I still maintain that taiga environment CAN at least support low density subsistance farming or grazing and logging activites aside from furs on its southern part, making CG-verse Siberia more than a few fur-trading-outposts during the XIXth century.
I agree that its only by the XXth that mineral resources discoveries allowed it to support more people.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

But if we examine the invasion chart, Britannia came in from the south of Africa, so wouldn't that be the more likely axis from where they began pushing into North Africa, probably bypassing going for Alergia in favor of severing the Suez Canal into Egypt or something? Perhaps this is even the reason why the invaded Area 18 in order to begin enclosing on El Alamain? >_>

Well, I tend to ignore the arrows for that particular map.


Also, bypassing Algeria doesn't make sense: why ignore the oil fields there and go for Egypt?

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Does it necessarily have to be Italy, I mean both the Dutch and the Germans were there if I recall

I said Italy because the EU commander there said "we're doing well for a deployment into Italy", if my translation is correct.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

But if we examine the invasion chart, Britannia came in from the south and North of Africa, so wouldn't that be the more likely axis from where they began pushing into North Africa, probably moving to severing the Suez Canal in Egypt or something? Perhaps this is even the reason why the invaded Area 18 in order to begin enclosing on El Alamain? >_>

Does it necessarily have to be Italy, I mean both the Dutch and the Germans were there if I recall

The rocky landscape of the landfall point looked definitly more from Italy (or at least the Mediterranean) than Netherland of Germany (coasts in those countries are FLAT)

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

[B]Well, I tend to ignore the arrows for that particular map.


Also, bypassing Algeria doesn't make sense: why ignore the oil fields there and go for Egypt?

My bad, the arrows showed another invasion into the North of Algeria as well. Still, this is probably something close to an encirclement of El Alamain if you count Area 18 now, wouldn't you say?

I said Italy because the EU commander there said "we're doing well for a deployment into Italy", if my translation is correct.

My subs had 'deployment of the Italian forces on the left flank' or something like that

[Ronin Aquila]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Hmm, judging from the colors on this map, Australia seems awfully independent from the rest of the world.

What faction is Australia called and how does our Fair Land Down Under relate to the rest of the Code Geass world?