2014-02-23, 23:30 | Link #2021 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
|
Quote:
anyways, thanks for clearing that up. i was stunned when i found that and now that i realize it was by a couple of butthurt fan just makes me only look down on mikoto fans even more after that. mikoto a lovable and great character but seems to be praised by the wrong people from what i seen(though not all of them are bad though). |
|
2014-02-23, 23:53 | Link #2022 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
|
Quote:
totally normal.
__________________
|
|
2014-02-24, 00:26 | Link #2023 | |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
|
Quote:
|
|
2014-02-24, 00:33 | Link #2024 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
|
Quote:
its also totally normal to be embarrass in that situation. Its realistic reaction for a virgin, no girlfriend/single teenage boy though his denseness is a bit unrealistic but aside from that. Its good. Normally. YOU will question why are they doing this thing and even if you start questioning then there are doubts or stupid teenage ideas. But so far. None. Denseness of harem's lead at its best form.
__________________
|
|
2014-02-24, 21:21 | Link #2025 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
|
Quote:
Hamazura's most attractive point is that he really is believable. He is fresh breath from Touma and Accelerator for a few reasons: 1. Is literally unpowered. Other than him being lucky. His existence really humanizes some of the characters, significantly Mugino. His escape from her wrath really reminded me that they are well, human. They make mistakes, they suffer from loneliness, they beliefs are both weak and strong, they are prone to emotional damage, etc. Having her fail and the dynamic of their relationships just became so much more meaningful. The change may seem random, but I honestly can't remember many events that didn't feel that way. Mugino is a person with her goals, it really isn't all that unthinkable that she would travel to find her goal. Again, I don't thin he was as valuable to the story after WWIII, but definitely added humanity to the characters, in turn helped their dynamics to be much more interesting. Where as Touma's cast: Mostly one-shot characters that barely have a greater role later in the series, with most of them being in love with him but not intereacting. Accelerator: I don't feel for Last Order, I'm pretty indifferent about her at the moment. But The researcher and the gym teacher are flat out boring. MISAKA WORST is a bit interesting... |
|
2014-02-26, 06:35 | Link #2026 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
is a bit late.....but.....
Spoiler for @dniv:
Quote:
EDIT: XD i forgot my main point: i wanted to say that Touma is not near to be a saint, he even protects someone who is 'more bad' than accel and fiamma together.... PS: one question: do you guys think that toume will simply go back to his flat and everything is fine and he has a new freeloader??? because i cant believ that the magic side would let fiamma live even if he lives wit touma, and othinus was even more worse, therefore im a bit curious about the opinions of you guys..... i personally cant imagine that they could live like they have until now, the only way would be to vanish with her and try to hide until the situation calms down.... Last edited by LevelSeven; 2014-02-26 at 07:24. |
|
2014-02-26, 09:56 | Link #2028 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
|
Quote:
Fiamma never reach "the one above god" since Imagine breaker reject him and Fiamma using Christianity while Othinus use Norse make it hard to compare, since "the one above god" use Christianity as base. and more importantly, Fiamma and winged accelerator have failed before, so that mean their success isn't 100% and that's put them below Othinus level. so far, only Othinus show an extreme dominance over Kamijou in term of sheer magic. Let's put it more simple, can you answer me : what is right and what is bad ? from your point, enemy of majority is bad so what does that make Gallileio and the church when entire prosecuted him and sentenced him imprisonment for the rest of his life, is scientist who wished for development "bad"?? the "bad" you see is veered into one direction, in actual truth, it's impossible to determined that, a revolutionist helped his country by killing many enemies, is he good or bad ?? can you actually said that Othinus is bad when you never actually experiences what she went through ?? the only 1 who have that right is Touma, who actually experience a similar things. And Touma was never a saint, when Index was attacked when they travel to England, he mercilessly attack the pilot for harming her while the pilot, inyour direction would be undoubtly "good" since he act for the sake of his passenger, does that justified his action for putting a girl into harm?? In this world, there exist no such thing as good or bad, they are both term made by human to describe a certain set of action, as such, it meaning varied between individuals, some thinks that killing can be justified as long as it can save, some never accept the act of killing. Are you absolutely sure that you decided whether someone is, in your term, "more bad" than others ? |
|
2014-02-26, 12:55 | Link #2029 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
accel never reached Level 6 therefore i thought it is clear: i only used the description of it which says Level 6 is someone who understands the will of the heavens, for me it sounds like a nigh-omnipotence being....
fiamma lost this position before he lost, but im sure even if they use different religions lsdap> othinus, the fact that he was about to change the world into heaven is more than enough....., im sure he could also summon hell, which turns the torture touma/othinus went through into a scratch from a needle...... i understood your post.....i agree too, this was the reason why i used this: ' before and after the word bad..... this terms are relatively, they also change for every person/religion/etc. but her actions are 'bad' simply because of the lives she took.... (or her actions are more worse, this is a better word ) fiamma: killed many innocent people via WW3 BUT for a more or less good (for the sake of others) reason.... othinus: killed also many people BUT only for her selfish (even if it is human-like) reason..... fiammas and accels actions was that of monsters, othinus managed to reach a new level, touma is trying to protect her (she isnt bad now, after her heel-face-turn, but this dont free her from the lives she took, accel/fiamma also changed but they are still monsters) which makes him into someone who helps a mass-murder...... a bad comparison: serial killer: killed over 20 humans (small children), touma talks with him and the serial killer stops, police tries to kill him, touma helps the monster, so: who was right and who wrong?? touma or the police? maybe the comparison is bad but i hope it shows the problem good enough, PS: i think for many fans othinus (the cruel, merciless b*tch) died after her adventure with touma and as if her jumping into his harem would undo all of her previous actions the fans are loving her.... |
2014-02-26, 13:01 | Link #2030 | ||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
If the act of killing is bad because you take away a life, then the act of reviving is good because you add a life. Then you'll say that committing the act is a sin regardless then what if the person had never died to begin with? What's the scoreboard? Are we going to start counting bodies of infinite parallel worlds that technically never happened? Quote:
Yeah no- He definitely has some fantasy elements to him.
__________________
Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2014-02-26 at 13:44. |
||
2014-02-26, 15:38 | Link #2031 |
Death to the infidels!
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: in a world of pain!
|
I do not think we can use the concept of good and evil when speaking of Othinus (she is a god, then human concept should not be applied to it), she killed thousands of people, but revived they, plays with life with the same ease that a child plays with sand, but this is something that only the Touma know, the other alleged victims can not imagine that such a thing occurred, and then everything is back to normal, then the alleged victim would still be the victim? murder can be forgiven if you bring the person who killed back to life?
we also have the fact that Touma fought desperately to return to own the world and that means it technically would kill all the people who came back to life, we can say that he committed attempted mass murder? is all very complicated. Last edited by Acer; 2014-02-26 at 15:49. |
2014-02-26, 16:04 | Link #2032 | |
Of Infinite Resignation
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 28
|
We should just apply ''Blue and Orange Morality'' to Othinus, because she is effectively Above Good and Evil, and be done with it. LevelSeven is essentially grasping at straws here.
Also, Quote:
Sheesh, don't make shit up on the spot when arguing, it reflects badly.
__________________
|
|
2014-02-26, 20:14 | Link #2033 | |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
|
Quote:
So for the sake of argument let's say she's not above good and evil, let's say that she did some bad things, let's say that she's messed up. Even then why is Touma ok in helping her. Since the last time I said it, you didn't seem to read anything I said except the bare bones, I'll say it this time in a short rant: Touma wanted to return to his world. As readers we were fine with Touma destroying a world full of people, because we wanted him to be able to return to his home, because we know him and like the characters in the main world of To aru series like Mikoto, Hamazura, and Accelerator. Othinus literally was doing the same thing. She was destroying the world for the exact same reason, the only difference is that we don't personally know the people that were in her world. Therefore, she was doing the same thing we wanted Touma to do. Therefore, she shouldn't have been doing anything wrong at all. Don't call it murder, that's stupid. Otherwise, Touma and Will-san were also committing murder, and they weren't, they were trying to return to their home. Killing people in a fake world isn't murder, it's levelling up while trying to become a level 120 player wearing full dragon armor. Killing people in a fake game isn't wrong. That's exactly what's happening here with Othinus/Touma. So why wouldn't he protect her. You not being able to see why he would protect her is frightening. There is no reason he wouldn't protect her. She was literally doing everything she could so she could return to her world, and then she gave up to save his life and fulfill his dream. Why the hell would he not help her then? If you answer every single point in this paragraph with viable arguments then I might be willing to buy your perspective, but what you are saying doesn't make sense to me at all. She isn't a killer, WWIII and direct killing of lots of people is literally just as bad. I really don't see why you don't like it when characters get a second chance. The whole reason that happens is because Index unlike other series is actually sophisticated. Characters aren't black and white, good or evil. They can grow and change, they have reasons for being the twisted way they are because of terrible things that happened to them. Time can make pain go away. That's true in real life, but most characters in anime are static. Index is different and it's one of the main reasons a lot of people like it. I don't see why you think she should get punished when she could become a powerful person that could do the world a lot of good. Why hurt someone that could help you? That's stupid, I'm sorry to say that. Giving people second chances is important, especially if they are going to change. If they're going to change, it's literally retarded not to give them a second chance. |
|
2014-02-26, 20:41 | Link #2034 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
|
Quote:
Quote:
And btw, Othinus could rebuilt the world, Along with religion, Christianity included, from the scratch. Quote:
+ multiple children contract a dangerous influenza that's could spread and kill all of the people in his village. + A killer kill them and removed the influenza at the same time. + the world condemned him + Touma stood up to protect him. i can't believe you actually use a serial killer example without bother giving me a motive. You just use the word "serial killer" and put that as bad without going over why did he do your so-called bad thing ? going by your analogy, a Police man will undoubtly good while you don't even know whether he exploited people or not, a burglar can't be anything but bad even if he doing so to save his mother who is on deathbed. |
|||
2014-02-26, 21:33 | Link #2035 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
|
I believe in redemption, but I also believe that people should pay for what they did, so I do not believe that a simple.
Touma: "She lost her powers and will not do any harm" Everyone: "OK". So I think a lot of great shit will happen to the two at the end of 10 NT (or not) |
2014-02-27, 01:06 | Link #2036 | |
Demon Hunter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ente Isla
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2014-02-27, 06:46 | Link #2039 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
i really hope this will happen, at least it would make me starving for the next chapter with touma and othinus are hiding themselfes and the magic+science side are after them.... (but deep inside i hope it because i want to see more chapters focused on accel ) |
|
2014-02-27, 06:50 | Link #2040 | |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
|
Quote:
I also see why you treat those as deaths even though they are fake. Then your point of view is fine even if I don't agree with the fact it's bad per-say. Though you seem to be one of the people who agrees with me that Touma did some pretty evil things this book even if it was ultimately justified... |
|
|
|