2011-03-19, 18:59 | Link #122 | ||||
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 30
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As you say, wishes are inherently tied to emotions. Therefore, there can be no perfectly reasonable and foolproof wish. You might argue that a wish has no need to be perfect, only decent enough to result in a net gain of happiness for the wisher... to which I reply: humans are also unable to think of such a wish. Take Mami, arguably the most successful wisher seen so far. Mami's wish was very simple: To live. Even she admits to crying at night out of loneliness - the pain of losing her family is overwhelming, and she has no one to replace them. Dying in the car crash might have been better after all, but it's quite debatable. Some argue the sheer simplicity of Mami's wish made it relatively successful, compared to other wishes. Ultimately, there was very little room to mess up the wish. You either live or you die. Quote:
You should have used Kyoko's past as an example. Kyoko's father committed suicide because all of his followers were mindless zombies. What Kyoko's father really wanted was for people to heed his teachings seriously. That was Kyoko's downfall. It's true, a lack of understanding is the starting point of tragedy. However, in your example, it is more like Sayaka is unable to understand herself. She believed that Kyosuke's happiness would become her happiness. That is where she went wrong - Kyosuke didn't really care for Sayaka after she healed him. Ostensibly, Sayaka healed Kyosuke out of altrustic morals. Truthfully, Sayaka just wanted Kyosuke to love her. By fooling herself, Sayaka was her own demise. Quote:
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Haha, just kidding. I would tell Madoka that she does have a special talent - genuinely caring about others. As corny as that sounds, it's very rare among people. To conclude, I would say that life is not about pursing what one is best at. It is about what one wishes to be. |
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2011-03-19, 19:09 | Link #123 | |
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Madoka quickly nodded when Homura gave her a few words of encouragement, indicating agreement with Homura. That's hardly someone on the brink of completely losing it. I mean, don't get me wrong, Homura certainly was a big help here, but I don't think Madoka would have totally snapped without her. Madoka was simply mourning given the situation. Who wouldn't, in her shoes? So, I reiterate what I wrote: Madoka's biggest strength is probably that she doesn't make rash decisions, and she keeps a level head. Yes, she cries a lot, but even in the midst of doing that, she doesn't lose her mind. You can give vent to sadness without giving reign to madness.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-03-19 at 19:25. |
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2011-03-19, 19:33 | Link #124 | ||
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This is not the smile of someone who has regained complete control of their mental facilities. This is the smile of someone who is trying to make the best of a situation they know is abysmal, struggling to hide the despair that's eating them alive, and barely hanging on. If you take away Homura from that scene, she doesn't have a crutch to stand on. |
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2011-03-19, 19:57 | Link #125 | |
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 30
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If I were the opposing side, then I would avoid trying to argue that Madoka has a level head. Instead, Madoka's pure emotion is what will make this timeline different from the others. Against all feasible logic and previous experience, Madoka will summon the courage to do what she truly believes in. But I'm not the opposing side, so please don't quote me and reply to this. |
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2011-03-19, 19:59 | Link #126 | ||||||
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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What I said is: you could be lucky, and you never get to regret your wish; i.e. nothing in the real world makes you doubt that you made the right decision. Until you become a witch, that is. Quote:
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(A minor quibble: I thought they portrayed Kamijou a bit more ambiguously. Especially the scene with him in the hospital bed flexing his fingers. Something in the visual/music style. But that's off-topic, here, so I'm not going into details.) Quote:
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2011-03-19, 21:03 | Link #127 | ||
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That's not to take anything away from Homura. I do think that Madoka would have ultimately failed against Walpurgis Night without Homura's help (in Timeline 3). I get the sense that you might be upset over the idea that I'm downplaying Homura's contributions here. I'm not. Homura was hugely helpful to Madoka in Timeline 3. Madoka just killed one of her friends, and witnessed two others besides die. The fact that she's not in a much worse state than this speaks volumes. Of course she's not going to be in a great state in that exact moment. But Madoka looks no worse there than someone grieving at a funeral. I've been at a funeral for loved ones before. I've grieved more or less just as Madoka is doing there. That didn't mean I never had a level head, or that I was about to snap. Quote:
Madoka's reaction is perfectly reasonable for a person in her shoes in that instance. A lot of people, perhaps most people, would react much worse, if in her shoes. This is not the image of a person about to snap. It's the image of a person mourning. Plus, Madoka's actions in that scene is a big part of the reason why I say that Madoka keeps a level head. In that scene, Madoka kept control of her faculties enough to stop the person who really snapped. That person being Mami. In the midst of all this death and tragedy, Madoka had the presence of mind needed to protect Homura, with a quick and decisive action. Now that's keeping a level head. That's refusing to allow sadness to turn into madness. In the end, actions speak louder than words, including the cries of a person in mourning.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-03-19 at 22:04. |
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2011-03-19, 21:50 | Link #130 |
On a mission
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Well, in any case Madoka has usually done the right thing (well, the best thing she COULD do) more often than not. So there might be a chance for the current one.
It also really tells you how events can change a person completely. When she didn't know about the truth, she was facing the problems fearlessly. As she began to know more and more about the truth, it became harder and harder. Until we get to this point where everything points to the fact that becoming an MG is just a bad thing.
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2011-03-19, 22:46 | Link #132 |
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 30
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Don't get me wrong. I think Madoka has emotional fortitude. When Madoka kills Mami, she does it out of reason.
After Madoka killed Mami is when the water works started leaking out. That's when she started saying "No! I can't take this anymore!" as if she had given up hope. Actions speak louder than words? Madoka planting her sobbing face in her gloves could be thought of as a sign of mourning... but it looks like one of resignation and despair, if you ask me. |
2011-03-19, 22:54 | Link #133 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2011-03-20, 02:09 | Link #134 | |
Crossdressing Menmatic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Where you live... the question is, do you see me?
Age: 30
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I don't think anyone has ever agreed with me so much... are you my secret admirer in disguise?
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For humanity's sake, I hope she does. |
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2011-03-20, 05:53 | Link #135 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Austria
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Triple_R: "mourning" Deconstructor: "resignation", "despair" Dawnstorm's first reaction: neither, really. She's just releasing all the emotional pressure of the situation, once the threat is gone. "Mourning", "Resignation" and "despair" may come later. Dawnstorm thinks some more: So do I disagree with anyone here about Madoka? Or maybe I'm just using the words differently? Normally, when I'm finally ready to post, the thread has moved on, and any post I could make is rendered irrelevant by lots of others pretty much having made my point. If people reply to my posts to counter some stuff I stay, I usually reply. The main effect of Hagoshod's posting of the pictures (thanks, Hagoshod) on me was: oh my god, I never realised how great the art is at expressing emotions. A picture says more than a thousand words. |
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2011-03-21, 20:09 | Link #137 | |
Guess what time it is?
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 38
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In the first few timelines it's strongly hinted (based on what we know of Madoka's character) that part of Madoka's reasoning behind becoming a puella magi was because she believed she was valueless otherwise. In timeline 4, Homura tried not to involve her at all, and because of that when the time to contract came, Madoka eagerly sacrificed herself for Homura because she hadn't been through the character development that totoum mentions above. In this timeline, Madoka is developing a sense of self worth and empowerment as a human, albeit at a dangerously slow pace. Madoka's happy ending -- if she is to have one -- will almost have come from the epiphany that she has worth as a person, and not just as a martyr for others. |
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2011-04-22, 15:54 | Link #139 |
Banned
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I need someone to replace this guy with Madoka, and either use an English voice, or some random Japanese with a subtitle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUxFiNlrDmA |
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