2004-06-24, 02:48
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Link #1 |
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Phat Poster/Thread Killer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester
Age: 38
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[Spoilers] Official "What if?" thread
What if someone other than Sasuke killed Itachi? Suppose in the hallway scene at the hotel, Jiraiya decided it was best to protect Sasuke (and Naruto) and just decided to kill him right there. What would Sasuke do? Would he still care to be strong? Would he pay attention to other aspects of his life other than just trying to kill that already dead man? Personally I think his characer would have to change a lot in order to still fit in the series. There is no hint on him returning Sakura's *love* towards him. He and Naruto are somewhat rivals, but seem to only really be bound under Kakashi. I can't see him hanging around with Naruto normally.
What if Naruto lost to Neji? Being that no one is promoted other than Shikamaru, Naruto's victory was pretty meaningless other than changing Neji and "assuring" Naruto that trying hard and always believing in himself will always get him a vcitory. If Naruto lost, it would have been a great reality check for Naruto and a recovery from such a loss would probably make him train a lot harder to be stronger faster than he is now. He is under the supervision of Jiraiya now, but let's be honest folks, Naruto can't be truly strong just by learning high level jutsu ahead of the game. There is a ton of basic stuff that Naruto sucks at that needs to be worked on before he moves on to learn things like summoning and Rasengan. I don't think this 'what if' would change Neji too much though. What if Tsunade agreed to help Orochimaru and healed his arms(without Jiraiya knowing and making the threat to kill her if she did), and Orochimaru went through with the revivals? She most probably wouldn't be the Hokage in Konoha if she did that. So where would that put her with her reborn loved ones? What about her leiutenant Shizune? What would Orochimaru do next? His agenga in destroying Konoha wasn't too clear. To me it seemed like he just has a grudge and wants to destroy the village. He was in Konoha for other reasons, but those other goals didn't need anywhere near the level of resources as destroying the whole village. Suppose Jiraiya did find Tsunade with her revived loved ones after the deal was made. What would he do or tell her? I don't think he would jull kill her(or try) after the deal went down without his advice even being imparted on her. This thread is meant for any suggestions on interesting "what if" changes that would change a lot of things in the series in the future, or evens that have already occured. Good "what if"s shouldn't be completely predictable as far as outcomes and are more interesting if it is a slight change that results in a very unclear and different future. Discussion on presented "what if's" would be nice too as I'm sure many could have interesting changes to talk about.
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Last edited by ElvenPath; 2004-11-15 at 11:32. |
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2004-06-24, 02:59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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What if Rock-Lee had been seeded against someone other than Gaara?
In all honesty I think only gaara could have pulled off a win vs Rock Lee. Even the Kyubified Naruto would be no match for Lee when he opened the gates. Not because rock lee is nessesarily the strongest but because his potent combo of Speed + taijutsu cannot be countered by the other Genin. In the words of Gai , "Lee is a Tai-Jutsu specialist that wont lose to anyone" Neji too would have probably fallen under Lee's barrage. I really do not think Kaiten would have held out for too long. If you remember when Naruto was in Kyubi mode and moving faster he attacked Neji at high speed and neji panicked and sayed in a desperate voice "This is not good, I need to start the whirl" Meaning if his opponent is too fast, hell have problems initiating the Kaiten fast enough. When Lee had his gates open Neji looked flabbergasted. Even Kakashi was staring wide eyed with his sharingan at Lee as he more or less teleported pingponging gaara around. Gaara only survived because so much of his defence is done involunarily and the gourd on shi back saved him the last second. Sasuke might have stood a chance but even he is not as fast as lee. He is as fast as lee with his wieghts off, but not as fast as lee with his gates open. However Sasuke has sharingan and that makes him a much more deadly fighter as he can anticipate moves. But is he a taijutsu specialist? No hes not. I think it would have been very intersting to see what would have happened had Lee not been seeded against Gaara so early. |
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2004-06-24, 03:00
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Me > Mods ;)
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-06-24, 03:48
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Regarding the first one, it ended up being in Jiraiya's favor anyway. Itachi used Tsukiyomi on his brother, leaving him with just enough stamina/chakra to get the hell out of dodge when Jiraiya used the frog stomach jutsu.
Had Itachi not used Tsukiyomi on Sasuke the fight would have been much more interesting. 2nd one: Neji might become even more arrogant seeing as how he has seemingly proved his ideology correct. 3rd one: Konoha would probably be destroyed and everyone is sad 
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2004-06-24, 04:09
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Link #6 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Age: 42
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I think you meant to say protect Naruto instead of Itachi in the first part of the paragraph. If Itachi was killed by Jiraiya, i can think a couple of thing would happen to Sasuke. First, he would tried to kill Jiraiya but fail do to the big difference of power and instantly kill himself because they have taken away from him his reason for living, thus the Uchiha name will cease to exist. If Sasuke killed Itachi, he will feel confuse, regret, empty, remorse and lose his will to live, but he can recover his will to live by rebuilding the Uchiha clan with Sakura. I just can't see Sasuke living happy ever after, if someone else kills his brother. He was always a loner and will be even more distant to his friends if that event ever happens. Maybe Sasuke is destined to die with his brother or illfated to be alone the rest of his life. This is a tough one. If Naruto would have lost against Neji, it would have made him train harder but he would still keep his nindo. I would like that to happen because that will be his wake up call but that won't happen knowing how stuborn Naruto is. He has to realise that people won't fall for those stupid speeches all the time, he has to mature and see the world as it is. Ninjas are pawns/tools of wars and nothing else. If Neji would have won, then he would continue with the speeches of fate that are pre-destined and continue hating the house branch. He will continue this path until he cross path with someone like Naruto, to free him of his cage and release the burden that he carries with. If Tsunade was to heal Orochimaru's arms, then she will also will become a traitor to the Leaf Village. I'm pretty sure Shizune would butt in but Tsunade will knock her out or kill her for being in the way for reviving her loved ones. I'm pretty sure that Jiraiya would have killed Tsunade and maybe her loved one too for betraying her country. Even if Jiraiya tries to convince her to join him to kill Orochiimaru, she would decline, because killing Orochimaru would mean killing the source who keeps her loved ones alive. If Orochimaru were to be healed by Tsunade, he will still be his old self. He will tried to destroy the Leaf Village again, again, and again until he erased them from the map. He would possess Sasuke body and kill anyone who stand in his way of becoming a god. He probably will trace the Akatsuki member and kill all of them, one by one. |
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2004-06-24, 07:05
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden, Uppsala
Age: 36
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because the ending of the first saga (the best one I think) he says he dosent like the way a shinobi is said to be (a tool) and that's when he decides his own "way of the ninja". He will run straight down the path where he wont regret anything, and not take back his words. (end of saga) Narutos way of the ninja wont ever change |
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2004-06-24, 09:47
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Uber Coffee for da win!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of insanity
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 Ya know, I really hate to say this, going off subject for the moment, but someone really needs to sit down with Naruto here soon and spend a couple of months teaching him the same skills Lee has. I wouldn't think that it would have to be Gai doing it either. For some oddball reason, Naruto learns best under old Ero-sennin, so for now he should stick with him and learn and perfect his hand to hand fighting. Then he should go back to Jutsu's.
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2004-06-24, 13:23
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Gaara's absolute defence.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Somewhere in Finland
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1. What if Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura would have faced Gaara's team in the forest.
2.  What if Neji would have faced Kankuro? Neji's attacks don't have effect to that puppet?3. What if Gaara would join the battle between Naruto and Sasuke (ok this is future stuff but still). 4. What if Kakashi wouldn't have stopped Sasuke and Naruto (ok this already has thread) 5. What if Hinata would have faced Sakura? What would Naruto think about this? 6. What if Lee would have winned Gaara? Lee vs. Sasuke = omg.... 7. What if Sasuke wouldn't have cursed seal? And then Gaara would have faced Neji and killed him(like very easily). Would Sasuke fear Gaara? 8. What if Itachi wouldn't have joined the organisation (don't remember the name). |
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2004-06-24, 13:49
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日本語を食べません！
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
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Depends. If Sasuke truly still has love for his brother, then he will focus and try to kill Jiraiya. Hell, family obligations may demand that he takes revenge on one who kills his blood. He'd probably be even more fanatical than he is now, as he must become strong enough to beat someone who is strong enough to kill his brother. • If Naruto lost to Neji Hard to say. Never before has Naruto been utterly crushed and defeated. I can see this as actually causing Naruto to retire. He has pretty much come face to face with his own mortality, something that will change you. In his fights, Naruto has never really come close to the concept of losing. Now, with the "I can win if I believe in myself" concept broken beyind belief, what will Naruto do? With the newfound realization that he actually can die despite pushing himself to his very limits, what will happen? Neji would most likely remain about the same. • If Tsunade healed Orochimaru's arms Her brother and boyfriend probably would a) never talk to her again, or b) return to Konoha, possibly also convincing her to return. I see Oro as manipulating other villages to attack Konoha, possibly Stone and Cloud this time around. If Lee went against anyone other than Gaara, the only one who would have a real chance of stopping him would be Dosu - seeing as how he has managed to slow down Lee before. Sasuke would most definitely NOT be able to beat him. The only reason Kakashi trained Sasuke the way he did was because Sasuke was set to face Gaara - and loss meant death. Against Lee, where losing means losing, Kakashi probably wouldn't train Sasuke to the extent/in taijutsu and speed. |
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2004-06-24, 14:35
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Phat Poster/Thread Killer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester
Age: 38
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To Wolf-Of-Mibu: I think its pretty clear that the only people Lee wouldn't have easily beaten at this point are Neji(questionable outcome and it would have been an interesting match - but let's not discuss Lee vs Neji here), Gaara, and Naruto (questionable again, because Lee doesn't exactly go against Naruto nindo so I can't see Naruto drawing on a lot of strength from Kyuubi to win here - this is also before Naruto knew about it formally).
To Chosen: I don't think that is entirely true. Take real life issues for example. In a martial art, there are some more advanced moves that have more complicated movement that build on some of the basics. Teaching someone how to do those more complicated movements can be done, and someone can execute that specific move perfectly. But because they didn't learn the basics, they probably wouldn't learn other moves quickly on that level, and would lack an understanding of how to execute it differently depending on the scenario. Jutsus are different that this, but when Naruto learns Rasengan, I don't think he is suddenly elevating his chakra control to that of the ninjas that are normally the ones would learn Rasengan (Sannin or Jounin). Especially when you consider the way he is cutting corners and the fact that he has to be told almost exactly what to do everytime. In the case of Gamabunta's summon, Naruto can only call it when he is in desparation. Someone like Neji would be able to learn such a jutsu on his own, and would probably have near enough chakra control to execute it normally (without using two hands). To Lost World: I think if Naruto faced Gaara at that point, it's fair to say that Naruto should die. Of course the show would never let that happen which is why he didn't face Gaara in the first place. Honestly, the only reasonable way to "allow" Naruto to win if he faced Gaara at this point is if Naruto was tortured until he snapped into the state he was in when he kicked Haku's ass. It's a bit sad to say that no matter what happens in this series, if all odds stack up against Naruto. Something like that can always happen and he will be sure to survive. Add-On: After readind what Lord Raiden said later. It's seems that the seal was on Naruto at this point. I still find it midly possibly that if Naruto was really in trouble, that Kyuubi's power could easily break the seal put on him. To knubbe: Obviously Itachi could have done more if he didn't use Tsukiyomi on Sasuke, but I was more interested in the results of Itachi dying right there and how it would affect Sasuke. Last of the Uchiha addressed it pretty well. To Last of the Uchiha: Very interesting input. It's true that I can't see Sasuke living happily ever after, because he calls himself a revenger. Even when he smiled, laughed, or had fun in series he still kept on going to get strong enough to kill Itachi. This anime doesn't seem to address the revenger thing too much, but Hunter X Hunter and I think another anime or movie I watched imparted the idea that setting out for revenge doesn't bring you happiness. Assuming Sasuke killls Itachi, I don't see him walking back to Konoha and living out his life normally and happily. It seems more fitting if his character gets more messed up pyschologically, or dies along with Itachi. Quote:
To ChildGamez: 1) A similar outcome should happen along the lines of Naruto facing Gaara during the pre-final's matches instead of Lee. It is also possible for this team to take out Temari and Kankuro, but then they would all have had to run from Gaara. 2) Pretty clearly, Neji probably would have just won. Neji doesn't have to attack the puppet and he could probably easily see which one is the puppet with his Byakugan. 3) I don't think there is any real significance to this possibility. Other than Gaara imparting how Naruto changed him to the now messed up Sasuke, while beating the crap outta him at the same time. 4) This one is interesting. The outcome is hard to say assuming Sakura wasn't in the middle of them about to take both Chidori and Rasengan. If she was there then they probably would have both hit her and what a mess that would cause. It would definitely screw up a lot of things. If she wasn't there...at this point Naruto and Sasuke could be considered even so they probably would have fought to a draw and both exhausted themselves. Of course Naruto always has Kyuubi with him so depending on what he calls forth, he could also easily win. If he draws little or none, he could also lose easily. Assuming a draw occured, the later events could have actually proceeded as normal. 5) Other than entertainment value, I dunno if there is any significance to this change. But it is interesting to think about what Naruto would do or say. Probably nothing. 6) If Lee won against Gaara, and Lee fought Sasuke later in the finals. Lee would have lost probably. Later Sasuke attains near Lee speed, and combined with his ninjutsu, I don't think Lee would have been able to win. Yes with his gates, there would have been a little more for Sasuke to worry about, but those are extremely temporary and I would think Lee's normal speed and Sharingan is somewhat enough for Sasuke to dodge Lee with 5 gates open. Add-on - raikage also bring up a good point. The reason for Sasuke getting his speed and Chidori training was to handle Gaara. Facing Lee, Sasuke wouldn't have had any training, or the same training at all. Since Lee was shown to be way over Sasuke's level before this, I think it's likely that Sasuke would lose to Lee. 7) No real significance. This is a really random change. Neji is also definitely not a pusher for Gaara. A match between them (not involving Shukaku) wouldn't be easily decided. 8) Ok, this one really has no significance other than him not being anywhere at all. The only change this would bring is that he wouldn't have showed up in the anime doing what he is doing now. It would have been just as things were before episode 79 or 80 - no Itachi around at all.
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2004-06-24, 15:20
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Link #12 |
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Yummy kakashi thighs...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: in bed with kakashi and his thighs
Age: 39
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what if the show was called Sasuke insted of Naruto? With everything that has happened but just that the show was called Sasuke instead of Naruto? I think that if the show was called Sasuke instead of Naruto (Sasuke being the main character) peple might start looking at the show a bit differently.
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2004-06-24, 15:27
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Link #13 |
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KAWAIII-III!!!! >^_^ >
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Magical land! (Magica-ru land!)
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Then Sasuke would be the lamest series ever...
Sasuke: Gotta kill my bro'! Gotta kill my bro'! What's that idiot in orange clothing doing? What a dumbass... Gotta kill my bro'! Gotta kill my bro'! and he'd kill Itachi in episode ... 23?
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2004-06-25, 01:02
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Gaara's absolute defence.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Somewhere in Finland
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 -> Wouldn't maybe gived Sasuke the cursed seal? -> Wouldn't attacked Leaf? I think it has significance. 
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2004-06-25, 01:26
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Link #15 |
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Phat Poster/Thread Killer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rochester
Age: 38
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To ChildGamez: The later changes that you brought up would have interesting effects. But directly, Itachi not being in Akatsuki would hardly do anything interesting in this series so far. It's a change that would almost erase his character's existence in the series except for Sasuke's hate and drive to get revenge on him.
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2004-06-25, 03:06
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日本語を食べません！
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
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As of right this moment, the Akatsuki have no real purpose in this show. I stated somewhere else, and still believe, that the Akatsuki were added for the singular purpose of having eight New and Dangerous™ villians. From a beyond-the-fourth-wall perception, if the Akatsuki were not in the series then nothing would change. Itachi would still be the killer of the Uchiha, just as a single entity rather than part of an organization.
That said, from looking within the Naruto universe: Too little is known about Itachi and his relationship with Akatsuki. He may have (and I will assume that he would have) killed his family regardless. He would almost inevitably have run into Akatsuki at some point during his exile, as the most powerful ninja not allied with a specific village. When someone on the caliber of Itachi turns free-agent, that's HUGE. I'm sure that other countries would be trying to recruit him...or kill him. If Orochimaru was still in Akatsuki, then the attack on Konoha may still have taken place. Oro seems to be a guy who plans for the future, and it's very believable that he would still have plans to get a new body even while still in the group. The timing may have been different for the placing of the seal (maybe not during the Chuunin exams). It seems as though Kabuto/Orochimaru have deep history - I think that Oro acquired this agent long before leaving the Leaf. He would still have his spy and Akatsuki most likely never knew about him. |
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2004-06-25, 06:16
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now with 20% more ego!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 33
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+I'm going into the 'Sasuke Retrieval Mission' Arc.I think if Neji did win Naruto back during the Chuunin Exam's,he would proberbly lose to Kidoumaru and most likely die?.Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm,a Naruto alternate realities thread?Cool. Now,let me think.Got it. What if Orochimaru was Hokage?(Yes,i have started a thread on this before...*) Then with Orochimaru's lack of the 'Fuuyin No Jutsu' to seal in Kyuubi,Konoha would have been wrecked and Orochimaru might have died right there right then?Then if so,Naruto would be born in a disaster village and possibly the Sand,(Im' using the Sand as an example)would proberbly take rule over Konoha,and konoha would be pretty much ruined,because of the Kazekage's selfishness.Gaara possibly could have been bron in Konoha.And then get into the ninja-academy where he would possibly meet,Naruto,Kiba,Shinkamaru and Choji.Naruto still be pretty powderfull(he does have natural talent guys!)but without his Kyuubi Chakra?Then He would have lost to Neji... ... Another alternate reality is where Konoha became a whore-house during the Fifth's rule......  Quote:
2.Well,in the [Sasuke Retrieval Mission] Arc we ay Neji go up against Kidoumaru and using his 64 hands of Hakke,beat Kidoumaru through a tree,so i think it's most likely that Neji would break Kankouro's toy to bits.He could also proberbly use his Byukagan to look for the Chakra strings Kankurou uses to control his puppet and cut them.(*Does the Byukagan have this kind of ability?*) 3.He would (i)Help Naruto but fail and instaed wake up Sasuke's State-2 form (Like he did with Kimi~san) (ii)Lose to Sasuke. (*Well that's how i would see it *)4.Um..Sakura would be dead? 5.Naruto would kill Sakura and then force himself onto Hinata and !@#$%^&*... ... 6.Well,Lee V Sasuke would be really intresting match. 7.I don't get this question. 8.(i)He didn't kill his family and didn't join the organisation. Sasuke would proberly not be the same as he is now.He would be pretty good,but possibly not as powderfull as he is now?And proberbly would have been Alot friendler.Then Orochimaru would have a wider choice of Uchiha's to chose from,but i think in this alternate reality,Itachi would proberbly be the good guy and kill Orochimaru?O!Orochimaru would proberbly stay in Akatsuki as well,but i doubt he would be as loyal as he should? But Itachi would have proberbly managed to stop Orochimaru?But like the poster on top said,Orochimaru would have planned the 'destruction of Konoha' plan pretty long ago,and proberbly quit Akatsuki eventually.(The reason i say this is beacuse,unless im wrong,that Orochimaru quit because of Itachi,so this naturally leads to the conclusion that Orochimaru was the strongest in Akatsuki before Itachi joined,thus,i think(My own little theory),that Orochimaru was planning to use Akatsuki to his own ends,but seeing someone stronger then him,he proberbly would have been afraid that his plans might have been foiled and might even lose his life?(Even though im basing this theory that Orocimaru and Itachi are strongest in Akatsuki,the other members aren't weak as well.) And Itachi did mention there were superiors ordering him to do his job so... ...i think i have a headache. Like Raikage said the chronological order of things would proberbly be very different from now.The difference in our posts is that im seeing this situation in the perspective of "If Itachi were a good guy". (ii)He killed his family but didn't join Akatsuki(That's the name) Well,i don't think we can be sure about this alternate reality just yet,cause' we don't really know why he joined Akatsuki in the first place. But if he did,like the Raikage said(Again!)everyone would what Itachi.And like 'All-Mighty-Raikage-sama' said,once again,he would(Itachi) still eventually join Akatsuki.And the Naruto would would proceed as normal,other then the chronological order.But my last sentense was a bit contradicting to the one before ne? hmmm......(hehe) There you go! Last edited by Inuzuka; 2004-06-25 at 06:59. |
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2004-06-25, 09:13
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CommanderBunBun
Join Date: Jan 2004
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;D The Wolf Of Mibu,clearly Neji could deal with naruto's speed and it wasnt too fast for him,he had the time to think "Hmmm boy,he got alittle faster,in order to compensate i think i will start the whirl in 1...no 2 seconds earlier then my prevous ones. Indeed,that seems the most logical approach to this sitation...<Throw in some random thing about doing the ramen girl>"
See! he said ALL that and still countered. |
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2004-06-25, 11:10
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Eyebrows...
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 37
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It's a little different for Naruto though; Jiraiya understands that he is a special case and knows that he will become more powerful more quickly if he takes advantage of his almost bottomless chakra supply rather than doing routine training designed for a normal person's limitations. If all ninjas had the sort of stamina and chakra that Naruto does, you can bet that they would train very differently. Also, the reason Naruto sucked at the basics when he started under Jiraiya was because of Orochimaru's seal, but even without it Kyuubi's chakra is wild and more difficult to control so it probably isn't worth the effort for him to bring them to normal standards. While you could definitely argue that being taught better taijutsu skills would benefit Naruto more, his Kage Bunshin somewhat compensates for that and frankly I'd rather he kept his unique fighting style than just try to become a Lee taijutsu clone like Sasuke(who clearly is better suited to do that because of the Sharingan). As for the summoning, that was really just intended to teach him to make use of his Kyuubi chaka when he needs it. His learning that high level jutsu paved the way for an overall increase in ability. We see that very clearly in the Neji fight when he uses what he learned while summoning Gama Bunta to channel Kyuubi's power. |
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2004-06-25, 23:48
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Link #20 |
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Kossapo Open Skill
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I Dont Know. Where Am I?
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What if Sasuke didnt gave Naruto his food, in the survival test. Kakashi would have failed them, and things wouldve been absolutely different than the way it is.
What if Jiraiya and Tsunade also betrayed the Leaf and also has some grudge against it. that's some HUGE SHIT the Leaf is facing. plus the fact that Itachi and the Akatsuki are also there to stay. What if Sarutobi killed Orochimaru right there and then, when they discovered that Oro's been experimenting on Leaf ninjas. This current arc would have never happened. and Who couldve been the main bad guy/s? Itachi? Akatsuki? What if Hizashi was born first and Hiashi second. Neji couldve been ALOT stronger than he is now. and Naruto even in Kyuubi mode couldve still lost. What if Naruto was the one who's family was massacred. and Sasuke was the one who is ignored by everyone, because he's supposedly carrying kyuubi INSIDE of him. but remember that the show is still called "Naruto". What if Naruto and Yondaime are actually brothers and their father is none other than Jiraiya. hey, after all, all three has some simliraties. |
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