Question for the editors out there!

[Koroku]

So right now, the members of my group seem to be in a big arguement over whether or not there should ever be an 's after a noun that ends in an s.

We're basically deciding whether James's or James' is more correct... and it's becoming more of a flame war (what can you expect?) than anything.


What do the rest of you guys use?

[monster]

Not an editor, but, if I recall my junior/senior high school english lessons correctly, 's after after an s is used for for words that naturally have s in them, like James's book. Plural nouns, like birds, don't need an s. So it'll be the birds' nest.

[SakuyamonX]

I also most note that it is a Acronym, that's a part of the problem.

DATS's or DATS'

and no DATS is not plural (DATs), it stands for Digital Accident Tactics Squad.

So yeah, we're wondering if DATS should be DATS' or DATS's

[Medalist]

It's James's ( may sound funny but the english language is funny) is correct term.

[monster]

Originally Posted by SakuyamonX

So yeah, we're wondering if DATS should be DATS' or DATS's

It should be DATS's, since the S is part of the name.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by JKaizer

So right now, the members of my group seem to be in a big arguement over whether or not there should ever be an 's after a noun that ends in an s.

We're basically deciding whether James's or James' is more correct... and it's becoming more of a flame war (what can you expect?) than anything.


What do the rest of you guys use?

"James's" is correct in this case. Add 's to the end to indicate possession for singular nouns that end with s.

Adding only an apostrophe is for plural nouns that end with s. (e.g. "the animals' habitat")

[Medalist]

Continuing that: James' would be used if more than one James being referred to for ownership.

[Ensign Shiro Amada]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

It's James's ( may sound funny but the english language is funny) is correct term.

There's actually no correct way, it's really just a matter or preference. Personally, I do like it that way, with 's after something singular ending in s and just an apostrophe after something plural that has an s added to the end (James's pen, the subbers' methods).

[tritoch]

That is the right way to apostrophe a name ending in s

Lacus'
Venus'

Not: Lacu's or Venu's or Lacus's or Venus's

Isn't s's redundant?

In the case of the plural nouns. "the animals' habitat" could be rewritten in a not so possesive way. "the habitat of the animals is the sea."
Also "the animals' habitat" would be confusing when to use a singular / plural verb.

[NoSanninWa]

When in doubt, refer to Strunk's Element's of Style:


Forming Possessives:

The possessive case of a plural noun ending in -s is formed by adding just an apostrophe: the doctors’ recommendations, the glasses’ rims, the flies’ buzzing noises. However, when the plural noun does not end in -s, form the possessive by adding -’s: children’s clothes.

[Mr_Paper]

Originally Posted by tritoch

Isn't s's redundant?

With that statement alone, a thousand grammarians are now crying themselves to sleep. >.>

[tritoch]

Pshh. I'm trying trap them. Oh phooey.

[Cythraul]

Originally Posted by Leech & Svartvik: A Communicative Grammar of English. p 289. (Third edition)

The genitive which is indicated only by the apostrophe occurs also with singular names ending in -s such as Jones. The genitive is written either Jones' or Jones's, and usually pronounced [phonetic alphabet omitted]. The spelling with apostrophe only is particularly common with longer names of classical origin: Euripides' plays, Socrates' wife.

One other "rule" I've sometimes seen is to use apostrophe only when you wouldn't pronounce the extra s. But do note that in this context, "rule" simply means a convention used by some writers.

So basically, you can write it any way you like it. Whoever claims only one way is right has no mean amount of grammar books and actual recorded English usage going against them.

[Medalist]

Or you can go by the "Genius" motto and be high-leveled and to lead your own path the way you see it and make it "James' " (the seemingly wrong way but if you want to be genius it's what you do) and "James's" the legitimate right but tacky way.

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by Ensign Shiro Amada

There's actually no correct way, it's really just a matter or preference. Personally, I do like it that way, with 's after something singular ending in s and just an apostrophe after something plural that has an s added to the end (James's pen, the subbers' methods).

I was going to keep quiet, but it seems Uchikatsu is still undecided. I'm of the same opinion as Shiro here (happens quite often *nods*) that it is actually just a matter of preference. Way back, when I was in school, my first middle school English teacher told us that the extra 's' wasn't needed - but then later, other English teachers told us you did for names. So it doesn't really make much difference - it's one of those quirks of the English language (like inquiry and enquiry, or archaeologist and archeologist) where neither method is wrong.

So basically we're saying, there's no definitive answer to your question. Hope that helps

(If you really want my opinion, I actually quite like the almost defunct extra 's' - it just makes it more pronounced that it is possessive - because otherwise, if there's lots of people named James owning something, they get the same apostrophe as one owning something, and that just doesn't seem fair to him! )

[Quarkboy]

My opinion on such things:

Fansubs aren't essays... they don't have to follow strict grammer guidelines.

I always ask myself this question: "Would it cause the viewer confusion or take them out of the experience of watching the show?"

So, using the example above, if I were to read this subtitle:

"I borrowed some of James's clothes."

or

"I borrowed some of James' clothes."

which one would be more likely to make me go "wait, that looks weird." I'd choose the other one.

In my opinion, I think #1 reads a little bit cleaner than #2... But I guess that's debatable.

[Ayanami9870]

My understanding is, if the object or name is singular, or doesn't have an "s" at the end, the apostrophe comes before. So a sentence with the possessive form of a guy named Bob would be:

1) Welcome to Bob's office.
- the apostrophe is before the s, and after the person's name.

2) What happened to the pencil's eraser?
- singular object

If the object or name is plural, or simply ends in an s, as in "James" or "Indiana Jones," and you want to refer to something that belongs to them with the possessive case, it would look like this:

3) This is James' anime stash.
4) This is Indiana Jones' trusty old whip.
- the apostrophe is now after the s

5) The copyright lobbyists' opinions were strongly divided.
-referring to lobbyists, which is plural


Anyways, apostrophe placings nowadays are considered too minor to fret over. Either viewers will be too naive to notice the typo, or mature enough to convert it properly in their heads. I'd be more worried about issues such as figuring out "its" vs. "it's," and people using "should of" instead of the correct term, "should have."

[ScR3WiEuS]

well, I do agree that this issue is mainly a matter of style/preference, since that specific aspect isn't really bound to any rules.
but I personally prefer to use < James' >, etc.
I can't agree with Quarkboy saying that < James's > reads a little bit cleaner than < James' >. it looks a lot more clumsy and breaks the rythm while reading. specially for non-anglophone people that make up a big part of the people watching our releases.
but like Quark said, it's debatable.

[False Dawn]

Of course, it's all academic - but you would pronounce it "Jameses" so I think I'd advocate James's more. After all, you have to think of the consistency within different structures. If the character said "It's James's," I think that looks much more conclusively possessive than "It's James'."

Perhaps we should have a poll

[Kenji Ikari]

Heh, I think I was always taught that "James'" was the right way.

I guess I'll have to agree with Mr. Amada that it's just a matter of preference.