[Anime] Umineko - Speculation & Theories (for first time viewers)

[maximilianjenus]

Now we know why george is wearing glasses.

[Paranoia833]

Regarding the second locked room mystery... what if the killer simply knocked on the door, was invited in by Eva, killed them both, relocked the door while inserting the note and then escaped out of the window?

Then they only have to kill Genji (assuming Genji wasn't in on it) and paint the symbol on the door from the outside and it's done.

[Teapot]

I don't think Eva would to just let someone into her private guestroom for no reason, or it would have to be somone she trusts and I think she would only let George into her room in this situation where there's a killer on the loose and it could be one of them.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Paranoia833

Regarding the second locked room mystery... what if the killer simply knocked on the door, was invited in by Eva, killed them both, relocked the door while inserting the note and then escaped out of the window?

Then they only have to kill Genji (assuming Genji wasn't in on it) and paint the symbol on the door from the outside and it's done.

I assume you haven't read the TIP regarding the second twilight. I think it was either posted here or in the episode 3 thread.
Just to clear that up, both the door and the windows were locked. It was a perfect locked room.

[June 1983]

Originally Posted by Paranoia833

Regarding the second locked room mystery... what if the killer simply knocked on the door, was invited in by Eva, killed them both, relocked the door while inserting the note and then escaped out of the window?

Then they only have to kill Genji (assuming Genji wasn't in on it) and paint the symbol on the door from the outside and it's done.

I think it's okay to mention this since it's in the TIPS that Klash has already posted, but

Spoiler:

the window in the room is also locked from the inside.

[White Manju Bun]

I doubt Natsuhi is the killer since all signs point to her itd be a let down if it was her, almost like if Eva was the killer. Obviously she cant be

Im a bit confused over the receipt in the door thing. Natsuhi goes in at 6am right? Was she in there for an hour since Eva said she put the paper in the door at 7am and when they came back at 9am it was still there.

Timewise it didnt seem possible for Natsuhi to have been talking to Kinko for an hour (and conv length time) but Eva is shown sticking the paper in after Natsuhi left.

Is my timeline off?

Ah the classic locked room Now if it was only locked one could argue the killer relocked it but since the chain was pulled and Kanon had to cut it, obviously this cant be done from the outside.

Also Im debating on who was killed first...if it was Eva why wouldnt her husband (whose name I cant spell) have come out of the bathroom to see what was happening. Unless Eva didnt scream when he was killed but highly unlikely she was perfectly quiet, laying face up on the bed she'd have seen how killed her. If her hubby was killed first why would Eva have let them into the bathroom. Course they could have been killed at the same time and hubby dumped into the tub

I might be looking too much into this. If it was Beatrice, witch magic takes most of this out of the equation

[Gnark]

Well if I remember correctly, Natsuhi wakes up 6am when Genji comes to wake her. She sees the things on her door, goes to the parlor where Eve and Hideyoshi has just arrived. They talk for a few minutes. And then Natsuhi leaves to talk with Kinzo. So the clock would probably closer to 7am than 6am.

[Karlson]

Alright...We know the window and door was locked. Doesn't appear the window was smashed either.

This is what I think might've happened going by what I'm seeing...

I think the killer was waiting for them in the room the whole time. Probably hiding under the bed and swiftly killed Eva before moving to Hideyoshi in the bathroom. The fact that Genji received no response from them even after he gets the door slightly opened and calls out to them leads me to beileve that the couple was likely dead before the servants even showed up. Plus there's the letter appearing out of nowhere like that too.

At 20:30 in the video you see Genji and Kanon at the door telling the couple that dinner is ready. Now watch 8 seconds later...notice the letter is directly in front of Genji's left foot? Now go back to 20:30 and you can see a nice clear view of the floor in front of that same foot, and no letter is there.

That means the letter showed up there suddenly a split second before Kanon caught sight of it. My assumption is the letter was slipped through from the other side of the door by the killer at that moment after the deed had been done.

The problem with looking at it this way is...how does the killer get out? Maybe he/she is still hiding in the room laying low until the chance comes where everyone leaves the area. Or maybe that's why the seal is there; to help the killer escape the scene before the servants return. But if so, who drew it? It couldn't have been the killer (unless he's still hiding in that room) looking at it that way since the seal was written on the other side of door from the killer.

And there's also the sound effect we hear that seems to indicate Beatrice's presense too. Where exactly was she during that moment? Obviously not in view of the servants since I'm assuming they can see her.

[Mei19]

If it really was a completely locked room, COMPLETELY no changing later on! Then the murderer should either be inside the room already before the two got there, or there's a hidden trap door involved. We don't know what kind of gadgets Kinzo built in his house. He might even have access in specific areas. That's assuming that there's no magic involved. I only watched the episode once, did Kanon see the bloody insignia on the door the first time he got there? He didnt ne? Not sure. Memory fuzzy. The killer might even still be inside when Genji and him first checked on the couple.

[Tamad]

Originally Posted by Karlson

Well at least we know where some of the murders took place. Weapon of choice is still anyone's guess (unless I'm retarded and completely missed it) but at least we now know it can be a weapon that leaves a bloody mess.

Well one's first thought would be the knife looking things sticking out of their head, but that could easily have been placed after their death. We won't know what really caused their death until Nanjo checks them out next episode. We still don't know the murder weapon of choice for the first twilight either.

Originally Posted by Teapot

I don't think Eva would to just let someone into her private guestroom for no reason, or it would have to be somone she trusts and I think she would only let George into her room in this situation where there's a killer on the loose and it could be one of them.

This increases the chances of the killer already being inside the room before Eva and Hideyoshi returned. George is a possibility, but I really can't see him as the murderer, especially since he reacted to Shannon's death in such a way. It could also be one of the servants.

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

I might be looking too much into this. If it was Beatrice, witch magic takes most of this out of the equation

Thinking about it from the logical standpoint is what makes this more fun. Claiming that a witch is behind is the easy way out, regardless of whether we are right or wrong.

Originally Posted by Karlson

Alright...We know the window and door was locked. Doesn't appear the window was smashed either.

This is what I think might've happened going by what I'm seeing...

I think the killer was waiting for them in the room the whole time. Probably hiding under the bed and swiftly killed Eva before moving to Hideyoshi in the bathroom. The fact that Genji received no response from them even after he gets the door slightly opened and calls out to them leads me to beileve that the couple was likely dead before the servants even showed up. Plus there's the letter appearing out of nowhere like that too.

At 20:30 in the video you see Genji and Kanon at the door telling the couple that dinner is ready. Now watch 8 seconds later...notice the letter is directly in front of Genji's left foot? Now go back to 20:30 and you can see a nice clear view of the floor in front of that same foot, and no letter is there.

That means the letter showed up there suddenly a split second before Kanon caught sight of it. My assumption is the letter was slipped through from the other side of the door by the killer at that moment after the deed had been done.

The problem with looking at it this way is...how does the killer get out? Maybe he/she is still hiding in the room laying low until the chance comes where everyone leaves the area. Or maybe that's why the seal is there; to help the killer escape the scene before the servants return. But if so, who drew it? It couldn't have been the killer looking at it that way since the seal was written on the other side of door from the killer.

And there's also the sound effect we hear that seems to indicate Beatrice's presense too. Where exactly was she during that moment? Obviously not in view of the servants since I'm assuming they can see her.

That's a very good catch actually, I never would have noticed that. That would conclude that the killer was still in the room at the time Genji and Kanon were there... assuming that it wasn't just an animation blunder.

But if the killer really was in the room at the time, then it would have been impossible for him to get out of the room. It doesn't really have anything to do with the short time frame (honestly, we still don't know how long it took for Kanon to get the chain cutter and Kumasawa), but the fact that the chain was still in tact when they returned. It's supposedly impossible to open that from the outside, so how would the killer have put it back in place when he escaped? Either the killer is still in the room, or there is a trap door. I'll make note of that a little bit down below.

There IS also the question of why Genji asked Kanon to also fetch Kumasawa, because she wasn't really needed to open the door. Buy more time? Genji could quite possibly be an accomplice in all this, and could have been the one to write the markings on the door.

Originally Posted by Mei19

If it really was a completely locked room, COMPLETELY no changing later on! Then the murderer should either be inside the room already before the two got there, or there's a hidden trap door involved. We don't know what kind of gadgets Kinzo built in his house. He might even have access in specific areas. That's assuming that there's no magic involved. I only watched the episode once, did Kanon see the bloody insignia on the door the first time he got there? He didnt ne? Not sure. Memory fuzzy. The killer might even still be inside when Genji and him first checked on the couple.

The thing about this is... if it were the truth, then it would really limit the number of suspects. You either had to be Kinzo, or you had to be very knowledgeable about the mansion. Who can we suspect under that process? The only people I could think of would be the servants, and to a lesser extent Nanjo...

[Sindas]

Originally Posted by Karlson

Or maybe that's why the seal is there; to help the killer escape the scene before the servants return. But if so, who drew it? It couldn't have been the killer looking at it that way since the seal was written on the other side of door from the killer.

Why can't it be the killer?

When both Genji and Kanon leave the killer unlocks the chain, paint the seal, reenters the room and puts back the chain...

[Alaya]

Originally Posted by Karlson

At 20:30 in the video you see Genji and Kanon at the door telling the couple that dinner is ready. Now watch 8 seconds later...notice the letter is directly in front of Genji's left foot? Now go back to 20:30 and you can see a nice clear view of the floor in front of that same foot, and no letter is there.

That means the letter showed up there suddenly a split second before Kanon caught sight of it. My assumption is the letter was slipped through from the other side of the door by the killer at that moment after the deed had been done.

It's possible. But it's also possible that it's just DEEN screwing up with the animation (like Genji case).

[plzd0ntkeelme]

Originally Posted by Sindas

Why can't it be the killer?

When both Genji and Kanon leave the killer unlocks the chain, paint the seal, reenters the room and puts back the chain...

That might work, kinda like how Kinzo tricked both Natsuhi and Eva. Although The killer would have to possess some speed painting trick and superb timing. The killer might be able to predict when Kanon will return since he/she is familiar with the house and knew where the chain cutter is located. The problem comes in how can he predict Genji's timing when all he said was calling Natsuhi. Unless the killer happen to know where Natsuhi was at that point in time.

The killer might also have used the letter under the door to somehow make sure both the servants will leave the room.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Karlson

At 20:30 in the video you see Genji and Kanon at the door telling the couple that dinner is ready. Now watch 8 seconds later...notice the letter is directly in front of Genji's left foot? Now go back to 20:30 and you can see a nice clear view of the floor in front of that same foot, and no letter is there.

This is a funny catch, but just for the record, this isn't mentioned to happen in the VN.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Sindas

Why can't it be the killer?

When both Genji and Kanon leave the killer unlocks the chain, paint the seal, reenters the room and puts back the chain...

I don't think any magic circle in this anime works (for human at least). If magic is required to kill Eva and Hideyoshi......I rather believe Umineko is about a bunches of witches play a game with 18 human lives (and have Batter aid Beatrice) than if any human actually have witchcraft.

[Sindas]

I'm not really siding with the magic theory, I simply wanted to point that the killer could still paint the seal while being in the room. Probably to do the classic "I fake to enter the room with the others when they open the door" trick.

However, like plzd0ntkeelme pointed out the killer would need insane timing. Didn't someone mention these already painted sheet of paper that you only need to press on a surface to paint a picture? That's a possible fast painting trick...

[Karlson]

Originally Posted by Sindas

Why can't it be the killer?

When both Genji and Kanon leave the killer unlocks the chain, paint the seal, reenters the room and puts back the chain...

Because when I said that, I was referring to the situation where "killer escapes the scene before the servants return". Sorry maybe I should've more clear on that. When I said the killer couldn't do it I meant she/he couldn't paint the seal and leave the area without leaving the trace of the undone chain behind. Either way its a pretty flawed way of thinking since I think the seal would still have to open the chain the normal way anyway, and the seal is said to only unlock (and not re-lock) all locks.

Assuming that the killer is still hiding in that room yes it can easily have been painted by him/her

Originally Posted by Alaya

It's possible. But it's also possible that it's just DEEN screwing up with the animation (like Genji case).

So in other words...3 rather misleading inconsistencies now and counting in a single episode. lol

[Ithekro]

If I recall correctly, there are paints that can be applied clear and later darken. usually due to some come of chemical change.

Could the door have been painted and then the seal not appear until after the room was openned due to a temperature change? Or a timed delay? The servants just arrived earlier than expected in that case.

[Karlson]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

If I recall correctly, there are paints that can be applied clear and later darken. usually due to some come of chemical change.

Could the door have been painted and then the seal not appear until after the room was openned due to a temperature change? Or a timed delay? The servants just arrived earlier than expected in that case.

Well 1986 isn't exactly a long time ago, so paint like that may have existed that far back.

[plzd0ntkeelme]

Originally Posted by Sindas

I'm not really siding with the magic theory, I simply wanted to point that the killer could still paint the seal while being in the room. Probably to do the classic "I fake to enter the room with the others when they open the door" trick.

However, like plzd0ntkeelme pointed out the killer would need insane timing. Didn't someone mention these already painted sheet of paper that you only need to press on a surface to paint a picture? That's a possible fast painting trick...

rofl That someone would be me.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

If I recall correctly, there are paints that can be applied clear and later darken. usually due to some come of chemical change.

Could the door have been painted and then the seal not appear until after the room was openned due to a temperature change? Or a timed delay? The servants just arrived earlier than expected in that case.

I think the temperature should stay almost the same throughout the house since the windows are all locked. The house should be using some centralized ventilation system.