Claymore Chapter 93

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by TalesNut

I haven't posted on here in forever, but I thought I should say somthing about this. The entire manga has a sad overtone, there's no way pris is going to end up joining the ghosts. That would be too happy. If clare just forgives pris after all the people she's killed and hurt that clare (on some level) loved, then the only possible thing that could happen next is for pris to resurect teresa, along with the rest of the leaf village. Then they can all hold hands and sing happy songs togather.

I hear you!

It's just that everyone and there brother keeps point to the mistake the Raphaela mentions Clare is making in chapter 91 as proof of this lovey dovey stuff.

I see no other great theories about this mistake, so I've just been waiting super impatiently to hear what it is... hoping for something else, but expecting nothing...

[TalesNut]

I think if clare were to not use her yoki riful would win for sure, and since the goal was to lure riful out and sneak past her, using yoki woudl be dumb.

Come to think of it, didn't clare lure riful out and sneak past her without fighting riful or getting noticed?

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by apotheosis

While the anime ending was obviously rushed, I would not be at all surprised if there is a similar resolution (in theme, not in circumstance) to the Claire vs Prissy conflict in the manga.

Random thought a long those lines... Priscilla wins there fight but spares Clare and apologizes to her.

Clare is forced to be with Priscilla for many journeys and fights until one day she finally gives up on vengeance and forgives herself and Priscilla.

Dam... another DBZ reference... think Viegeta accepting Goku in the end minus the sayian blood making them want to fight to proves who's the best.

Edit: Now think about it if Clare starts to fully awaken (so Priscilla is now in Teresa's shoes) and she chooses to spare Clare... I won't get into the twists of how Clare's full awakening could go or if someone like Galatea reverts her at the last second... leave that to you all

[Shiek927]

Holy hell Ryus

I'm having my little spat with TalesNut, I refresh the page and BOOM, you're there

Okay, one step at a time here....

Uh... ok... Teresa was clearly referring to her power level and not sword skills but if you choose not to believe that... Uh... OK...

Spoiler for Lagre image, Read bottom 2 pannels:


That's not talk of one getting better at swordsmanship but of one's hidden power level potential.

I asked the question earlier because I was trying to give you a constructive way to work around the dialog to support your theory. I only saw one way to do that at the time I posted (and have now thought of one more, coming up in a second) #1) Teresa made a mistake... so forgive me for putting words in your mouth but if you still believe that Priscilla can't match Teresa as a warrior (not AB) then you must think that Teresa overestimated the size of the monster in Priscilla or she didn't quite remember how strong she was due to her lack of using her power and therefore underestimated herself when compared to Priscilla. Or a slightly modified version of it... #2) that Priscilla still fully hasn't reached her true maximum and Teresa was right about the depth and magnitude of the power. Sorry for putting words in your mouth but those are the only ways I can see that we can work around this dialog (since there has been no plot revel that Teresa was wrong), especially since we all know at the point of the story in the provided image, Yagi had very very likely already planned on killing Teresa and awakening Priscilla and how strong she'd be. Plus much much more...

Think about it... Your right Teresa was thinking about how strong Priscilla would be if they meet again as warriors. Now since Teresa was talking about power levels add all that warrior potential that was unlocked (where she should have been about tied with Teresa) and she then on top of that power add her awakened power. Gulp... it's your "Hyper-Abyssal".

Sorry I didn't mean to come off rude. I just believe everything said by Rubel... Teresa... Irene... Rigardlo... Isley... and Renee to far outweigh little Riful's theory that 2 Abyssals could take her [if she hadn't starved herself, which Riful seems to be clueless about... since know who knows she may be right ].

*blink* *blink*

Talk about mind-boggling!

Their's nothing really I can say: I have no reason to believe that Priscilla's not stronger then 2 Abyssal One's other then just that it's been my thought process for a very long time and I don't know If I like the idea she's even stronger. Not to mention Riful only said their "might be a chance" if 2 Abyssals fought her, never said anything about actually winning.

To actually reach Hyper-Abyssal...it just seems like too much. Do you know what this means? It means not even the new juggernaut on the block, Raciella, has a chance of scratching her. Again, we don't know how much she's weakening herself but I don't know....


One little question....Isley and Renee? When did Renee ever gauge Priscilla's strength? she trembled all right and gave us the indication she was stronger then Riful at the very least by her reactions, but that's about it.

And if Priscilla really was a Hyper-Abyssal....I get the impression she would have torn him completely apart rather then just tearing off one arm.

Forget it, I'm not doing anything but saying random things

I belief Raki is looking for help but if Clare is unable to (and not because she's being a bitch) I'd being willing to bet Raki plans to stop Priscilla at any means necessary. I doubt he will forgive himself but I think he'd do what needed to be done. He's more likely to wait till just before she loses control. I just don't see Raki believing that his liking Priscilla would let him endanger others... i think he'd do the right thing.

I can agree with that, but I do believe he'd try to help her before making any violent moves.

You're right in the sense that Claire and all the Ghosts might not be able to help her but surely they must be able to do something. They know the secrets of half-awakening, surely they can offer some sort of insight.

But you're right, if all else fails, Raki will tragically end up fighting her back and dying like he predicted he would.

I love cycles.

Sorry no one is perfect and stopping all violence cycles seem too Gundam wing for me.

Agree with the logic of it but have my doubts that is the way Yagi will portray it. It may happen but I doubt there be talk about it... no philosophical debates. Just an understanding between the ghosts of when killing is not acceptable.

I'm a little confused....and I'm not familiar with Gundam Wing.....

So....do you agree with me or not? I can't tell

Of course the plot won't end with Priscilla joining them... What I said was I fear if it ended with Priscilla's reversion to a half awakened being, not her joining forces with the ghost... her being finally fully accepted by the ghosts at the end would be cool with me (but the joining force would come long before that point).

I Can see it now the Cycle broken, the organization defeated, all the yoma dead, the mainland is in a state of peace, Clare has let go of her vengeance, and then Priscilla reverts to a partially awakened being and is a threat to no one and doesn't have to be put down. The then Ghosts all get boy friends, start a family, gold rains for the sky, and Teresa and all the other dead come back to life for a giant group hug. There was joy around the world.

In short Priscilla must revert well before the end or I'll feel it was too easy of an ending.

Well....that's one possibility, but TalesNut won't be happy

But yes, Priscilla has to revert before she joins the Ghosts, it would be silly if it happened like that and the main issue, her hunger, wouldn't be solved.

I think if clare were to not use her yoki riful would win for sure, and since the goal was to lure riful out and sneak past her, using yoki woudl be dumb.

Come to think of it, didn't clare lure riful out and sneak past her without fighting riful or getting noticed?

Why are you dodging?

You said that her power is unknown; we know it's known, and you seem to think that if she used her yoki, she would actually beat Riful.

Their's also the fact, even before that moment, Claire said herself that she wasn't strong enough to beat her:

"Even if I can't beat you, escape from here is possible"

That's proof enough that she isn't even in Abyssal territory yet, whether or not if she uses Yoki. However, if she is strong enough to beat Riful, why bother with stealth? Why not just kill both her and Dauf and kill a major threat and save Renee without any trouble? That seems to be the kind of power you're implying she apparently has.

Going back to the original point, this is proof enough that Claire just isn't even close, especially if Priscilla's strength is far more then I thought according to Ryus. Fully Awakening is the only way I can see Claire winning, much less having a chance.

[TalesNut]

Because it wouldn't be the best course of action. Think of how long fights on that level take. Teresa vs pris took forever, so did Easley vs Lucia.

Lets say you want to steal a candy bar from a gas station. You've got the firepower to ensure that you will succeed. How would you, (you being clare) go about this? Considering clare was trained to be sneaky from the best, she'd probably try to get in, steal it, then get out without being noticed. Going in and shooting everyone before walking out with your candy bar would be a huge hassle and waste of effort.

Also, I dont think she was trying to say she couldn't win, all clare was really saying was that she could definatly get away. Remember, she used an "if" statment, meaning maybe she cant win, but she can get away.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by TalesNut

Also, I dont think she was trying to say she couldn't win, all clare was really saying was that she could definatly get away. Remember, she used an "if" statment, meaning maybe she cant win, but she can get away.

By saying she couldn't win is the same as saying she's not strong enough to beat her , you seemingly change your mind halfway through your post.

............And are you aware that you're contradicting yourself?

Because now, by agreeing with me that she cannot beat Riful like she clearly said, you agree that she does have a measure of power that we are aware of and that she is still leagues and leagues away from even scratching Priscilla, unless she fully awakens, especially if she's even stronger then 2 Abyssal Ones like Ryus believes.

Pretending that she has this imaginary strength that she's strong enough to beat Riful like you originally seemed to imply, I still don't see what's the problem. Killing Riful and Dauf would remove a major power; why bother being sneaky at all? Because of alot of hassle? So what? If she has the power, I don't see what benefits you could get by not killing her.

I really don't get you TalesNut, I really don't.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Holy hell Ryus

I'm having my little spat with TalesNut, I refresh the page and BOOM, you're there

Okay, one step at a time here....

Sorry thought it be just me and you tonight...

Originally Posted by Shiek927

*blink* *blink*

Talk about mind-boggling!

Their's nothing really I can say: I have no reason to believe that Priscilla's not stronger then 2 Abyssal One's other then just that it's been my thought process for a very long time and I don't know If I like the idea she's even stronger. Not to mention Riful only said their "might be a chance" if 2 Abyssals fought her, never said anything about actually winning.

To actually reach Hyper-Abyssal...it just seems like too much. Do you know what this means? It means not even the new juggernaut on the block, Raciella, has a chance of scratching her. Again, we don't know how much she's weakening herself but I don't know....


One little question....Isley and Renee? When did Renee ever gauge Priscilla's strength? she trembled all right and gave us the indication she was stronger then Riful at the very least by her reactions, but that's about it.

And if Priscilla really was a Hyper-Abyssal....I get the impression she would have torn him completely apart rather then just tearing off one arm.

Forget it, I'm not doing anything but saying random things

Sorry for that... I was just so confused with what you where trying to get at I couldn't drop it.

Renee showed the same level of fear with Priscilla as she did with Raciella. She didn't with Riful. This proves nothing except that Priscilla and Raciella are beyond anything Renee could imagine. When likely a pair of eyes would be able to judge the level of an Abyssal... if Riful wasn't so good at hiding her power.

As for Isley, well he didn't even notice her regeneration. Then he was in disbelief with Priscilla taking half his body in a split second. That screams Isley was way less then half of what she was. Plus the fact that Isley never contradicted what Rigardo said. Finally Isley said that no mater how many strong ones Riful assembled that no one could defeat her. I believe no one means even as a group not solo... Here I interrupted Isley as saying Priscilla is just as beyond them as they where above Rigardo and Duff.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

I can agree with that, but I do believe he'd try to help her before making any violent moves.

You're right in the sense that Claire and all the Ghosts might not be able to help her but surely they must be able to do something. They know the secrets of half-awakening, surely they can offer some sort of insight.

But you're right, if all else fails, Raki will tragically end up fighting her back and dying like he predicted he would.

Same thought I'm just taking it a tab farther.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

I'm a little confused....and I'm not familiar with Gundam Wing.....

So....do you agree with me or not? I can't tell

Piece of advice don't watch it... It starts off as this ok giant robot death match but turns into a 15 year old girl convincing the world fighting is bad. The gundam pilots try to stop killing and almost get killed countless times because of it but never die

Then the girls big brother deliberatly starts a pointless war and deliberatly runs it that way so people will agree with his little sister. The gundam pilots play along but on the other side. Big space battle... humanity on Earth hold a protest against violence... battle ends... Giant space station falls to Earth... big brother fakes his death when he stops it for hitting Earth...

15 year old girl voted UN leader... she throws all weapons into the sun... humanity lives in perfect happiness for all time being fooled by the show that was put on for them.

In short right idea... lets stop the cycle of violence but with horrible debates about why its so right every 5 secs...

So, I agree in principle, but am saying Yagi would never make a big deal about it.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Well....that's one possibility, but TalesNut won't be happy

But yes, Priscilla has to revert before she joins the Ghosts, it would be silly if it happened like that and the main issue, her hunger, wouldn't be solved.

Name someone who would like that ending if they enjoyed the rest of Claymore... If you can I'll beat some sense into them.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Why are you dodging?

You said that her power is unknown; we know it's known, and you seem to think that if she used her yoki, she would actually beat Riful.

Their's also the fact, even before that moment, Claire said herself that she wasn't strong enough to beat her:

"Even if I can't beat you, escape from here is possible"

That's proof enough that she isn't even in Abyssal territory yet, whether or not if she uses Yoki. However, if she is strong enough to beat Riful, why bother with stealth? Why not just kill both her and Dauf and kill a major threat and save Renee without any trouble? That seems to be the kind of power you're implying she apparently has.

Going back to the original point, this is proof enough that Claire just isn't even close, especially if Priscilla's strength is far more then I thought according to Ryus. Fully Awakening is the only way I can see Claire winning, much less having a chance.

Is this aimed at TalesNut??? I haven't read all of his posted yet...

[TalesNut]

It's amazing what failing to read one word can do. I'll go back and bold some stuff for you.

Also, I dont think she was trying to say she couldn't win, all clare was really saying was that she could definatly get away. Remember, she used an "if" statment, meaning maybe she cant win, but she can get away.

Both of those words indicate that she isn't certin she can win, but also isn't certin she cant. That would make it unknown, which is exactly what I've been saying this entire time.

[Ryuken]

I also don't think the that would be the most liable cause to say the least.

[Ryus]

Watch out Shiek, TalesNut is inside your head!

(Look at his Location)

[Shiek927]

Sorry thought it be just me and you tonight...

Hehe , relax you, you're getting more attention from me then TalesNut, it's basically the same

Renee showed the same level of fear with Priscilla as she did with Raciella. She didn't with Riful. This proves nothing except that Priscilla and Raciella are beyond anything Renee could imagine. When likely a pair of eyes would be able to judge the level of an Abyssal... if Riful wasn't so good at hiding her power.

As for Isley, well he didn't even notice her regeneration. Then he was in disbelief with Priscilla taking half his body in a split second. That screams Isley was way less then half of what she was. Plus the fact that Isley never contradicted what Rigardo said. Finally Isley said that no mater how many strong ones Riful assembled that no one could defeat her. I believe no one means even as a group not solo... Here I interrupted Isley as saying Priscilla is just as beyond them as they where above Rigardo and Duff.

I think you're taking Renee's fear a little too far. Yes, Priscilla and Raciella are farther then Riful and obviously her fear shows it, but you can't stretch it and say it's farther then anything she's imagined. We know Raciella is a Super-Abyssal, but using Renee's fear as further proof that Priscilla is even stronger, a Hyper-Abyssal....just doesn't seem concrete enough.

Bah, I always believed Isley was just exagerrating to make Priscilla the God on the island. He wasn't kidding that she was basically unstoppable to everyone until Raciella showed up(though you seem to think otherwise), but I thought he was just stretching the truth a little. After all, if Claire fully awakens, she's not invincible anymore is she?

In short right idea... lets stop the cycle of violence but with horrible debates about why its so right every 5 secs...

So, I agree in principle, but am saying Yagi would never make a big deal about it.

Ignoring non-Claymore stuff, then you agree, that's all I need to know

Well, it isn't even my idea, it was Revan's, but he makes a point. If Claire fully awakens, she'll just be hated and feared through the island.

Name someone who would like that ending if they enjoyed the rest of Claymore... If you can I'll beat some sense into them.

......<_<

.......>_>

*raises hand slowly

don't kill me please

Is this aimed at TalesNut??? I haven't read all of his posted yet...

Yes it was, and he's confusing the hell out of me.

It's amazing what failing to read one word can do. I'll go back and bold some stuff for you.

Also, I dont think she was trying to say she couldn't win, all clare was really saying was that she could definatly get away. Remember, she used an "if" statment, meaning maybe she cant win, but she can get away.

Both of those words indicate that she isn't certin she can win, but also isn't certin she cant. That would make it unknown, which is exactly what I've been saying this entire time.

I can't believe you're putting so much into one word she said, because she said "If".

Especially when it doesn't disregard the fact she said Riful would kill her if she saw her, which throws all that tough-talk out the window, If and all, as well as giving us a measure of power.

God this is so ridiculous I feel dumb just thinking about it. I feel like talking to a 2-year-old and all logic is thrown out the window because he keeps saying "But Why?" again and again....and again.....and again......and again.....and again....and again

No offense

[Shiek927]

Watch out Shiek, TalesNut is inside your head!

(Look at his Location)

? What, is he invading my profile or something?

Eeeek

OOOOH, his location, now I get it...

Wait....is he my conscious? Don't tell me he's God, oh please please no

And Ryus? Gundam Wing? I don't get it

The only thing I managed to derive from your synopsis is that the little girl is a confusing
psychopath....and 15 year olds shouldn't be made UN leaders.....15 years old shouldn't be anything
but in school

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

To actually reach Hyper-Abyssal...it just seems like too much. Do you know what this means? It means not even the new juggernaut on the block, Raciella, has a chance of scratching her. Again, we don't know how much she's weakening herself but I don't know....

Forgot to talk about this point...

First off that's likely half the reason why Priscilla has been starving herself. So she'll not be that much stronger and likely weaker.

Second of all I already covered this a while ago but maybe a merger awakening will be far stronger then that of 2 #1 awakening added together. It could be an exponential growth. After all they where made from the same yoma so they should really be able to merge far beyond what any others could (except Alicia and Beth). So there awakening could be like a four fold increase or more. Plus lets not forget Raphaela has been fighting with her aura suppressed and that is how the ghosts increased there powers. Mind you I doubt Raphaela was training like them but she did suppress her aura for a lot longer then 7 years so any training she did would have effected her in the same way. also the very fact that they lost all since of self meant that even there minds could better merge.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Forgot to talk about this point...

First off that's likely half the reason why Priscilla has been starving herself. So she'll not be that much stronger and likely weaker.

Second of all I already covered this a while ago but maybe a merger awakening will be far stronger then that of 2 #1 awakening added together. It could be an exponential growth. After all they where made from the same yoma so they should really be able to merge far beyond what any others could (except Alicia and Beth). So there awakening could be like a four fold increase or more. Plus lets not forget Raphaela has been fighting with her aura suppressed and that is how the ghosts increased there powers. Mind you I doubt Raphaela was training like them but she did suppress her aura for a lot longer then 7 years so any training she did would have effected her in the same way. also the very fact that they lost all since of self meant that even there minds could better merge.

So what you're saying, is that their is a possibility that Raciella could possibly be a Hyper Abyssal herself?

You and I seem to have the same mental power levels beliefs...except yours is on a much higher level then mine.

Don't push it however; exponential growth is something we know Priscilla has; she awakened all her potential when she fully awakened, we can't say other people has it without something more concrete. Rafaela probably did something much more during her years alone that we don't know, but we just don't know.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

And Ryus? Gundam Wing? I don't get it

The only thing I managed to derive from your synopsis is that the little girl is a confusing
psychopath....and 15 year olds shouldn't be made UN leaders.....15 years old shouldn't be anything
but in school

confusing psychopath... more like Holier than Thou stuck up B**** with puppy dog eyes.

She was the daughter of some assassinated guy like Gandhi. So sadly people listened to her... She didn't get her brother to attack Earth. He just realized it would help her cause... he was the crazy one... She was a very naive idealist who took her pacifism very seriously. Even though in the end she fell for one of gundam pilots, the bad ass 15 year-old year old one with the second highest death count (he even blew up buildings with C4, aka without his giant robot). She changed him like Raki did Isley, cry...

Never watch it!

[TalesNut]

I cant make it any more clear what the words "if" and "maybe" mean then I just did. Also, the only thing we can really go by are those words, we have no real info telling us how strong clare really is. She's been hiding her yoki, so no one (including riful or yourself) really knows how strong she is.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Ryus

confusing psychopath... more like Holier than Thou stuck up B**** with puppy dog eyes.

She was the daughter of some assassinated guy like Gandhi. So sadly people listened to her... She didn't get her brother to attack Earth. He just realized it would help her cause... he was the crazy one... She was a very naive idealist who took her pacifism very seriously. Even though in the end she fell for one of gundam pilots, the bad ass 15 year-old year old one with the second highest death count (he even blew up buildings with C4, aka without his giant robot). She changed him like Raki did Isley, cry...

Never watch it!

Believe me, I won't, the story seems pretty silly and nonsensical.

And you're telling me this psychotic confusing 15-year-old girl is the main character?!

What a show!

I cant make it any more clear what the words "if" and "maybe" mean then I just did. Also, the only thing we can really go by are those words, we have no real info telling us how strong clare really is. She's been hiding her yoki, so no one (including riful or yourself) really knows how strong she is.

If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds
If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds
If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds
If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds
If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds
If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds
If I so much as cross her field of vision, she'll tear me to pieces in seconds

Would you please explain to me how this isn't proof? And it's from her own mouth? Are you saying she's lying, and she's hiding for some other reason?

I can keep pasting it if you like

I have something to explain why I believe Claire's current measure of power is known. You haven't really given anything other then emphasizing the word "If" which doesn't do much.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

So what you're saying, is that their is a possibility that Raciella could possibly be a Hyper Abyssal herself?

You and I seem to have the same mental power levels beliefs...except yours is on a much higher level then mine.

Don't push it however; exponential growth is something we know Priscilla has; she awakened all her potential when she fully awakened, we can't say other people has it without something more concrete. Rafaela probably did something much more during her years alone that we don't know, but we just don't know.

I'll take that as a complement!

I can use Riful own comments to support my speculation "It's still growing Larger and Larger" "but it just keeps on growing Larger" right before the AF attack. In other words it's already at her level and showing no sings of stopping. Something you suspect if she was already half way to her maximum.

[TalesNut]

Again, with her yoki totally hidden, I'm positive that she's telling the truth. If she were to release it, things may have been different. Again with things we aren't sure of that you seem to have knowledge of...

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Believe me, I won't, the story seems pretty silly and nonsensical.

And you're telling me this psychotic confusing 15-year-old girl is the main character?!

What a show!

If I had to pick a main character it would be her "boyfriend" gundam pilot, if only due to it being a show for young boys. She's easily the female lead and has whole episodes with her and only supporting characters. So she has about equal air time as her "boyfriend" gundam pilot but at the same time she's introduced half way through the first episode when he's at the beginning...

The story seems IS silly and nonsensical.