2010-07-11, 14:04 | Link #2721 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Here's a thought... What if the "furniture" Shannon and Kanon are distinct from the "real" Shannon and Kanon? They might be adopting characters that are different versions of themselves for the purposes of the fake death charade.
Actually this would explain Genji calling himself furniture as well, now that I think of it.
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2010-07-11, 14:04 | Link #2722 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Renall you can pull up that picture now Does he call himself furniture? I don't remember many instances where he does. I think he usually goes by 'servant to Kinzo' more than he does furniture.
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2010-07-11, 14:05 | Link #2723 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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The question is, why is it magic? Magic is distortion of the unobserved. I put the candy into the cup, lie about not doing it, and this is magic because candy appears out of thin air in this manner.
So what can possibly be magical about saying the truth, that is, that these three characters are just a single confused person?....
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2010-07-11, 14:06 | Link #2724 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Edit: Only problem with that idea of mine , is that would violate Knox's 1st. Knox's 1st: "It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story. "
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2010-07-11, 14:07 | Link #2725 |
Senior Member
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I don't think Battler could be declared dead after Erika decalred she killed the other 5, for two reasons.
The most important being that Battler's plan probably revolved around one of those 6 going around and doing things that seem like mysteries to trick Erika. If he declared himself dead, he would have to completely redo the entire rest of the story. The debatable one is that, it might create a logic error with how the letter got outside the guesthouse. |
2010-07-11, 14:11 | Link #2726 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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There's also Battler's accusation that he was acting like a robot in EP2...
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2010-07-11, 14:11 | Link #2727 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I.e. I am trying to piece Shkanon together within itself and find it internally contradictory.
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2010-07-11, 14:12 | Link #2728 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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For instance, if Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice are all fake roles created by "True Beatrice," an individual who poses as all three but does not consider him/herself any of them and thus would have to lie to him/herself in order to become any one of them permanently.
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2010-07-11, 14:12 | Link #2729 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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First one in Episode 1: Quote:
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2010-07-11, 14:15 | Link #2730 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Erika's red about killing the first 5 is I properly re-killed them.
re-killed...of course, the number of people is 17. She couldn't have killed them the first time, she killed them in a meta-world layer. So there is still the culprit running in the mansion... But...hey...3 bodies...Shkanon doesn't explain how 3 person were is the guest room at a point of the time... Or Erika's dead corpse was in this room. |
2010-07-11, 14:19 | Link #2731 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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That is, she would need to kill them within herself, but there would still be nothing magical about it.
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2010-07-11, 14:22 | Link #2734 | |
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The lie is that the original person was never Kanon or Shannon or Beatrice. None of those people ever really existed, but could "come into existence" by True Beatrice committing to one of them. Otherwise, all relationships are doomed to fail, because True Beatrice does not actually intend for any of them to continue existing. It's a variant of Shkanon, and I'm only slightly more comfortable with it than any other, but I don't see how it has any particular pitfalls in that respect. If we divorce the real person from any of his/her personas, a lie is required for one of those personas to be given "real" existence.
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2010-07-11, 14:27 | Link #2735 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I wonder if the love duel would have still took place if Beato hadn't come in...because...hum well...
The broch is in two part... Beatrice, Kanon and Shannon makes three part...one must be eliminated... Like this it looks like Shannon is the one who lose the love duel...right ? |
2010-07-11, 14:30 | Link #2736 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Ah, Oliver, thanks! I was meaning to comment on that at some point since I didn't notice it until translating EP6.
Yes, it does require a kind of magic for Kanon, Shannon, or Beatrice to be chosen. It doesn't deny the Shkanon theory, but actually makes it even stronger. What is magic? Is it a lie? There's a discussion between Ange and Featherine that basically says "that definition of magic works for Beato's pranks, but it doesn't explain the miracle that they're dueling for". So, the lie definition of magic isn't complete. I think the point here is that magic is a 'decoration of the truth'. The easiest way to use it is to tell a lie and fool someone. However, there's another way. You can also convince the person to accept the lie willingly. In other words, Shannon would have a problem marrying George. George admitted that they chose to have no sex before marriage, but if they did, it would become clear that Shannon's hair and chest were fake (probably). The miracle of magic would be telling George the truth and convincing him that her feelings as Shannon were genuine, and that she can continue to live as that person.
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2010-07-11, 14:32 | Link #2737 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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However Erika still killed at least five people in EP6 that's for certain.
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2010-07-11, 14:32 | Link #2738 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I say that it doesn't "quite" work instead of "doesn't work" outright because, naturally, multiple degrees of "experiencing" can be imagined, some of which may actually fit in with the speeches. But the more "experiencing" those virtual entities can do, the less it is a lie or magic to become one of them, and the less "experiencing" is involved, the less conflict between them is possible at all.
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2010-07-11, 14:33 | Link #2739 |
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I have a problem with any Shkanon theory in which we assume one personality is the "original." I am slightly less upset over a notion that all of them are acts. That at least gives us a core character who might have an interesting motive, and potentially allows this person to be several other characters (MF19YA, Other Battler, etc.) or none of those characters (or they could literally be "characters").
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2010-07-11, 14:35 | Link #2740 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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