|
View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 23 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 96 | 67.61% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 33 | 23.24% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 8 | 5.63% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 2.11% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 0.70% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.70% | |
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2012-06-11, 04:00 | Link #121 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 34
|
Quote:
And Saber wasn't saved by her quest. If she had been, she wouldn't have tried to redo the selection of the King. At the very least, she would have just sent future knowledge back to herself or something. She wanted someone else to breaking because she wasn't saved, she was giving up.
__________________
|
|
2012-06-11, 05:07 | Link #122 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
The Gil vs Rider fight made this episode for me, everything about it was perfect IMO.
Although I was all "that thing can stab people?" when Gil ran Rider through with Ea......also lol at Berserker trying to no-scope Saber with his Barret .50 cal. |
2012-06-11, 06:26 | Link #123 | |
Art Block Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Quote:
don't question an intent if you only see the result.
__________________
|
|
2012-06-11, 07:16 | Link #125 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-06-11, 09:39 | Link #126 |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 43
|
Although I did enjoy the episode, this really bothered me as the real Alexander was a tactical and military genius, while here he simply charges forward with troops massed. It would have been nice to see Rider employ some actual tactics in his battle with Gil.
|
2012-06-11, 09:50 | Link #127 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
Quote:
Alexander is entirely capable of dropping Gilgamesh in the middle of his army and just bury him with numbers. On the flip side, Gilgamesh is entirely capable of just kill Alexander outright without giving him a chance to use the King's Army. It's all a "worthy foe" honour thing. |
|
2012-06-11, 10:27 | Link #128 |
Anxious bookseller
Author
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Shibuya Psychic Research
|
Great episode, dont really know what else to add that hasnt been said. Was spoiled to Lancelot a while back but the reveal was still pretty good.
Gah I hate saying my respect for Gil went up in this but it did. Just a bit. Rider nearly had him, if not for his "bag of tricks". Im glad Rider made it to the finally epis.
__________________
|
2012-06-11, 10:29 | Link #129 | |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 43
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-06-11, 11:31 | Link #131 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
Quote:
The Noble Phantasm is "King's Army", not "King's Strategy". And the final confrontation is indeed your prototypical pissing contest of honour and chivalry. There was no strategy there. If there were strategies and intrigue, it would not be a head-on bash to begin with. |
|
2012-06-11, 11:33 | Link #132 | |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 43
|
Quote:
It also cheapens Rider's interaction with Saber over the course of the series, which essentially boiled down to Rider's contention that Saber lacked the ability to truly lead men (i.e., to use her tools to their full potential). But if the power of one's tools is all that matters, then skill is unimportant and the outcome is, in a sense, predetermined. So for example, give Rider Excalibur and the motorcycle and Saber the chariot and Rider wins, which would only seem to prove that, in that situation, Excalibur/motorcycle is the better tool, and say nothing about the underlying conflcit between Rider and Saber's ideals of kingship. I do see a counterargument in that the treasures are physical representations of the skills and accomplishments that a hero has attained in his or her original life, which serve as proxies for the power and skills of the hero. Ionioi Hetairoi therefore becomes more than an army, and serves as physical manifestation of Rider's ability to lead and inspire other men. I don't think the series has ever gone this route (though I could be mistaken), so I don't put much stock in such an argument. |
|
2012-06-11, 11:36 | Link #134 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
Rider's ability is to call on his men, who will follow him to hell and back, and then some.
Rider already demonstrated his leadership and charisma by having an army that is willing to clash with the King of Heroes (which is clearly hopeless). Sabre's failure was already illustrated through Lancelot, who not only did not follow her, but still haunted her in the afterlife (glaring contrast with Rider). |
2012-06-11, 12:44 | Link #138 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
|
Still defeats the purpose of the fight.
Besides, having just Ea wouldn't be enough. Having just Excalibur wouldn't be enough. These weapons work like they do because they are the conceptual weapons of these heroes. Hand them to someone else and they either won't work, or they will only work once. Excalibur without Saber is just a sword (more or less). Ea without Gil is just a cone shaped protosword. Rider's problem for this fight....he didn't know about any of Gil's special weapons. Gil had basically only been using Gates of Babylon....for everything. If the fight was Rider's Army verses the Gates of Babylon....well if would have been a long bloody battle. Gil breaks that with Ea. Rider's not ready for that. I'm not sure if he would have won if he's had his chariot against Ea (or ea's draw time).
__________________
|
2012-06-11, 13:42 | Link #139 | |
Six Shooter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 43
|
Quote:
I can accept the idea that the noble phantasms are "conceptual weapons," although as I noted above, the anime hasn't "earned" this interpretation. But my original point stands that a fight between Archer and Rider which made use of the historical Alexander's reputation as the most brilliant military tactician of antiquity would have made for a much more interesting battle. Instead we got a typical (although very-nicely animated) shonen battle that consists of: A: "I will defeat you with my supermove!" (Ionioi Hetairoi) B: "Ha, my supermove perfectly counters your supermove!" (Ea/Enuma Elish) A: "Ah, ha, I have another, even more super, super-suicidal move!" (Bucephalas' charge) B:" Ha, ah ha, I have an even more supersecret supermove!" (Enkidu/Ea) Spoiler for comparision with Accel World:
|
|
2012-06-11, 13:46 | Link #140 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
|
Quote:
Avalon can only heal Irisviel when Saber is around and that's an ability ingrained in Avalon. Irisviel isn't actually using it.
__________________
|
|
|
|