2013-03-28, 11:10 | Link #63 | ||
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At heart Madara isn't a conqueror or an avenger, subjugation wasn't his goal. Madara was a protector, what destroyed him was the lose of what he wanted to protect the most, the rejection of the rest of his clan and the realization that despite Hashirama's hopes the people from newly formed Konoha would never see him as anything else than double-edged sword at best. Madara is a discarded shield. Hashirama had an actual point for wanting Madara to be the 1st Hokage, he's the one who gave him the idea to form an alliance with his enemy to make a place where they could protect their loved ones in peace. Had his plan worked and Madara started seeing all of Konoha as the people under his protection and with Hahirama to gound him with his ideal it'd probably had worked too and this would be a very different world, albeit a boring one. |
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2013-03-28, 11:42 | Link #64 | |
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2013-03-28, 13:27 | Link #65 |
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It's a little unclear when this event took place but it should be after Hashirama became Hokage around the time when Madara finally snapped for good.
But I don't think this event showed Madara trying to rule over Mu and Oonoki, I'm guessing it was basically his version of foreign policy which if anything is another argument to have Madara always staying in Konoha to protect the homeland with Hashirama doing the convincing abroad in order to make new friends instead of piles of corpses. Last edited by Hunter; 2013-03-29 at 03:24. Reason: typo |
2013-03-28, 13:31 | Link #66 | |
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Of course it could be that his encounter with Oonoki was after he left the village, but Oonoki didn't know yet that Madara is not the Leaf's representative any more. |
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2013-03-28, 14:12 | Link #67 |
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I don't think Madara thought Hashirama was betraying him, everything show he understood perfectly what kind of person Shodai was. That's why he said the Uchiha's clan was doomed once Tobirama would become Hokage. He trusted Hashirama but he was just one man and once he was gone reality would take its natural course once again.
I also don't think Madara was plotting in the sense you mean. At this point he had already devised his plan to deny and overwrite reality. |
2013-03-28, 14:51 | Link #68 |
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Seems pretty clear that Hashirama would never give up hope on Madara, much like Naruto with Sasuke, so I'm guessing the outcome is probably that Madara (seemingly) commits seppuku when he's faced with defeat this time.
I'd like to see exactly how the Kyuubi comes into the picture here. We know that the Uchiha shrine describes how the Sharingan can control the fox, but I wonder if it'll be explained why Madara never used it until he went rogue. Maybe it was forbidden by the clan.
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2013-03-28, 14:56 | Link #69 |
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But then his little fighing and speech to Oonoki was just how he was? In that scene he definitely was making an enemy of another village while he should know that it does go against Hashirama's will, and also their dream of having a peaceful world. So then it's probably like you told, that it happened after he left the Leaf village, and by then he was thinking that the current world is just for entertainment so he was just playing with Oonoki to have fun, that also explains why he didn't kill him. And it also explains his current behavior, he still believes that his plan will succeed, so he's just having fun fighting the kages and the army. Still it's a bit odd that he's just fooling around while he should know very well that if Obito doesn't resurrect him or Obito himself fails to control the 10-tails then his life-long plan will fail.
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2013-03-28, 15:30 | Link #70 |
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Would be a real nice plot twist if Tobirama turned out to be the true villain, attacking everyone after the flashback is over and then blowing up Konoha, again.
Then he goes and curbstomps Madara, and big bad final boss fight. (I mean, he did make Edo tensei, probably could have upgraded his own outdated version while Hashirama busy talking and then got back control of himself and stuff) But Kishimoto probably won't do that. |
2013-03-28, 15:30 | Link #71 | |
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Also I thought this flashback would answer what really happened to the senju clan, but it seems we're running out of flashback time here, already spanning several chapters. Maybe they just diluted over the years and mixed in with the rest of the village, I don't know. The Uchiha were alive and well up until just before the start of the series. |
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2013-03-28, 15:50 | Link #72 | |
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2013-03-28, 16:08 | Link #73 | |
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The Uchiha are definitely a kind of clan that would want to keep their Sharingan exclusive to themselves, despite how kind that fat old lady in Sasuke's flashbacks seemed...
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2013-03-28, 17:16 | Link #74 |
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So... Am I the only one expecting Kishimoto to make Naruto give up his dream and give it Sasuke thus having the first Uchicha Hokage
Guys, you don't know how painful is that thought. Spoiler for Like this:
Oh, and I feel like the next chapter will include Madara's own version of Orochimaru, or something like that. |
2013-03-28, 17:23 | Link #76 | |
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I never said Danzo was evil. However, for Danzo, anything goes as long as he can become the Hokage. He didn't mind half the village being slaughtered if it meant that he could become Hokage. That may not be evil, but it's a really messed up way of thinking.
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2013-03-29, 03:41 | Link #78 |
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The problem with people saying Tobirama (or worse Danzou) were pragmatic is that they don't realize those characters aren't living in our world. Pragmatism is the philosophy to base your theories and belief on practice and actual data.
Therefore to be pragmatic in this world would be to admit the empirical fact that the like of Naruto and Hashirama are always right. It doesn't matter if their decision seems dangerous or even insane to you, the fact of the matter is that reality always vindicates them and so in the name of practicality idealism should be the new realpolitik. |
2013-03-29, 07:38 | Link #79 |
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I'm wondering if after the final battle between Hashirama and Madara,if Hashirama kills himself then.Maybe Madara wakes up after he does this and takes Hashiramas body to that underground hideout.Maybe the Zetsu tree is Hashiramas body,maybe thats why Zetsu acted all goofy.I wonder if Edo Hashi can re-absorb all this dna going around.
Oh ,and i hope we find out what Yamatos fate was,is,whatever. |
2013-03-29, 08:03 | Link #80 | |
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