Ore no Imouto - Light Novel & Manga Discussion Thread

[Xical]

Originally Posted by SigUp

Um, that would be Sakurai herself. What I suspect is, that Kyousuke in the situation it was, just said it randomly. That he did not have anyone he liked romantically three years ago.

By the way, the way Kirino calmly introduce herself to Sakurai was so great. I don't know, but I have the feeling that she was thinking something like "another girl / rival has appeared". When she introduced herself I really felt that she was meaning something like "this is MY boyfriend", which I think showed how much she loves Kyousuke.

Hopefully this will be, because if what Kyousuke said about someone who he like 3 years ago, and that person was not Kirino, the only one left is Manami.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Xical

Hopefully this will be, because if what Kyousuke said about someone who he like 3 years ago, and that person was not Kirino, the only one left is Manami.

Yeah, I also realized that. But I just don't see how he should have liked Manami. Because if he did, there was nothing that would have prevented him from going out with her, as she obviously would have accepted. What I think is, when Kyousuke said his answer back then and right now are the same, the meaning was more for making a point than him really rejecting Sakurai if she had confessed to him three years ago. Because didn't Kyousuke think when Sakurai told him, she was about to confess to him back then, that he would have been happy (which serves as another point against the notion that he liked somebody else back then), as his efforts would have been repaid and so on. But of course he couldn't say that in this situation, and due to him having made up his made concerning Kirino, there was also no way he would have said that, even if he could have. As for the statement to Sakurai in this chapter, I think that was just something he randomly threw out there, as obviously saying that he already loved his sister three years ago, when she still was an elementary schooler would have been even more disgusting.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Xical

Hopefully this will be, because if what Kyousuke said about someone who he like 3 years ago, and that person was not Kirino, the only one left is Manami.

Well, remember what was said in the past about his porn choices. He used to have a thing for girls with glasses. Personally, I suspect he did have feelings for Manami in the past, which is why he was spending so much time with her (and was why Kirino, jealous of that, started distancing herself from both of them even before Manami's declaration to her). I think that Kyousuke has always wanted to impress Kirino and was close to her, but I suspect that he didn't love her that way three years ago.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, remember what was said in the past about his porn choices. He used to have a thing for girls with glasses. Personally, I suspect he did have feelings for Manami in the past, which is why he was spending so much time with her (and was why Kirino, jealous of that, started distancing herself from both of them even before Manami's declaration to her). I think that Kyousuke has always wanted to impress Kirino and was close to her, but I suspect that he didn't love her that way three years ago.

Perhaps he did have a little bit of feeling towards her, but I doubt that these were feelings that had manifested themselves, so that he was able to identify them. Moreover, about that porn choice, was it explicitly stated that most of them were of girls wearing glasses? I can't remember anymore, but I do think that Kirino pulled out those with girls wearing glasses deliberately, so they may not be very representative of his tastes back then.

[tommythecat]

Originally Posted by SigUp

Yeah, I also realized that. But I just don't see how he should have liked Manami. Because if he did, there was nothing that would have prevented him from going out with her, as she obviously would have accepted. What I think is, when Kyousuke said his answer back then and right now are the same, the meaning was more for making a point than him really rejecting Sakurai if she had confessed to him three years ago. Because didn't Kyousuke think when Sakurai told him, she was about to confess to him back then, that he would have been happy (which serves as another point against the notion that he liked somebody else back then), as his efforts would have been repaid and so on. But of course he couldn't say that in this situation, and due to him having made up his made concerning Kirino, there was also no way he would have said that, even if he could have. As for the statement to Sakurai in this chapter, I think that was just something he randomly threw out there, as obviously saying that he already loved his sister three years ago, when she still was an elementary schooler would have been even more disgusting.

This whole situation always bugged me, if he lied about actually liking someone else it technically solves it but at the time he really did like Manami, to what extent is unclear however. So assuming he was being truthful and it wasn't Manami it is Kirino. I could go on about how that is pretty unlikely but I'll take it a step further. 11 year old Kirino loves her older brother and one could say it's a pretty normal infatuation really, if Manami never forced them apart Kirino's love wouldn't have been warped into a sense of longing. It's not that strange for a pre adolescent to say they want to marry and be with someone they look up to forever. So I honestly have an easier time understanding Kirino's state of mind on the whole thing more so than Kyousuke.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by tommythecat

So I honestly have an easier time understanding Kirino's state of mind on the whole thing more so than Kyousuke.

This is basically the problem. Kyousuke was spending more time with Manami's family at the time and this was causing Kirino to slowly drift away from them even before the situation with Sakurai. If he really did love Kirino at that time, then his actions don't really make sense. At the very least, if he were going to be spending time with Manami's family so much (why?), he'd keep trying to get Kirino involved.

I tend to take Kyousuke's statement at face value here.

[s0beit]

Spoiler for Hrm:

- "I already thought it was [this person] for sure! Because you said [no matter whether three years ago or today, my answer is the same] ah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ what? You already liked your own imouto three years ago?"
- "No, the person I liked three years ago and the person today are not the same."
- "That's true! It's so easy to get it wrong!"
- "Right, didn't you also think that if I explained it back then, it would have been very twisting?" (?)
- "That's not the question here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ what ~~~~~~~~~~~~!"
- I will eat you! Bear girl Sakurai made this kind of pose.
- "This seemingly deep [I know] I replied back then, in truth I got it all wrong, I'm so ashamed! I seem just like an idiot! By the way! By the way! Leaving this aside for now! Although it is not good at all, let's leave it aside first! Imouto! Imouto what!"

Is it really confirmed that he liked a different person 3 years ago, though? This TL is pretty confusing, and since he doesn't elaborate upon it I can only think:
1. He's lying about liking somebody 3 years ago
2. This way the conversation flows, maybe he's flippantly denying it but he actually did like imouto 3 years ago (Like, "yeah, right")
3. He did like Manami back then, but this causes a huge plot hole imo. Since Manami clearly liked him back then.

In that order.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is basically the problem. Kyousuke was spending more time with Manami's family at the time and this was causing Kirino to slowly drift away from them even before the situation with Sakurai. If he really did love Kirino at that time, then his actions don't really make sense. At the very least, if he were going to be spending time with Manami's family so much (why?), he'd keep trying to get Kirino involved.

I tend to take Kyousuke's statement at face value here.

Still, going back to chapter 11, doesn't he realize that he was always acting super-Kyousuke for Kirino [and Manami, if we take Manami's word for it, even though she always discourages it]

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is basically the problem. Kyousuke was spending more time with Manami's family at the time and this was causing Kirino to slowly drift away from them even before the situation with Sakurai. If he really did love Kirino at that time, then his actions don't really make sense. At the very least, if he were going to be spending time with Manami's family so much (why?), he'd keep trying to get Kirino involved.

I tend to take Kyousuke's statement at face value here.

Yes, I don't think Kyousuke was in love with Kirino back then. Did he care somewhat for her, sure. But romantically no. As for why he didn't spend much time with Kirino outside of home (he did talk with Kirino about his 'exploits' quite often, I think), perhaps a reason was that he thought his friends would see it as uncool if he played with his little sister.

EDIT: @s0beit: my view is, he made that up on the fly. Because of the situation. I mean he was very embarrassed, and then Sakurai pressed him on with the question. And he also couldn't back out by saying he had nobody he liked three years ago, as this would have provoked Sakurai to ask him why he told her that his answer back then would have been the same.

[s0beit]

Originally Posted by SigUp

EDIT: @s0beit: my view is, he made that up on the fly. Because of the situation. I mean he was very embarrassed, and then Sakurai pressed him on with the question. And he also couldn't back out by saying he had nobody he liked three years ago, as this would have provoked Sakurai to ask him why he told her that his answer back then would have been the same.

I could see this happening.

"Sorry, I made it up because it sounded more dramatic that way"

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by s0beit

I could see this happening.

"Sorry, I made it up because it sounded more dramatic that way"

I think the main question here is not the accuracy of this statement right here, but of his statement in Volume 11:

Spoiler for Volume 11:

"No matter whether it's now or three years ago, my answer is the same."

I answered while crying.

"Sorry, I already have someone I like."

Because I think, if there was anybody he liked back then, wouldn't it perhaps have been Sakurai herself, because a few lines before that:

Spoiler for Volume 11:

If I had heard those words back then, the first confession I received would not be from Kuroneko but from Sakurai.

…Back then, I would have been very happy.

To see that my efforts had paid off —

I was prepared to hear that my efforts caused trouble for her, but I was still happy.

In fact, I always wanted someone to acknowledge my efforts.

As for why he in this case he did not tell her the truth. First, he is rejecting her ultimately. So in order to leave no doubts, he also includes that "three years ago" to spare her the thought of "what if I had successfully confessed three years ago". Second is, because he already had made up his mind about Kirino, he was already in this kind of "close-the-door-and-lock-it-up" mode concerning rejections.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by s0beit

3. He did like Manami back then, but this causes a huge plot hole imo. Since Manami clearly liked him back then.

I don't think it really causes a "plot hole", because consider the glacial pace of their relationship even at the start of the show. Even if they did "like each other", they'd known each other for so long that they were practically family (which is part of the irony of the clash between Manami and Kirino; they were both close enough to Kyousuke to be at least "like" a sibling to him). What motivation did either of them have to pull the trigger? What's the rush?

(I've definitely known people where they both had feelings for the other person, didn't confess for whatever reason, later moved on in their lives, and way after realized that back then their feelings were mutual. It certainly happens.)

Originally Posted by SigUp

Because I think, if there was anybody he liked back then, wouldn't it perhaps have been Sakurai herself, because a few lines before that:

Spoiler for Volume 11:

If I had heard those words back then, the first confession I received would not be from Kuroneko but from Sakurai.

…Back then, I would have been very happy.

To see that my efforts had paid off —

I was prepared to hear that my efforts caused trouble for her, but I was still happy.

In fact, I always wanted someone to acknowledge my efforts.

Again, I'm not sure that we have to infer too much here. Even though he didn't love her, he would have been happy to take that confession as a symbol of gratitude. He still says that he would have rejected her due to loving someone else.

I guess I'm just not sure why we should think he's lying.

[Ricadan]

Perhaps Kyousuke did harbor romantic feelings for Manami 3 years ago, but I think that they spent so much time together that he could only view her like a sister. When siblings spend so much time with each other they can no longer look at each other romantically, and i think a similar effect probably happened, in contrast with what happened with Kirino. Kyousuke always refers to Manami as an old granny, so alternatively we could also say he views her only as a doting elder sister (even though they are the same age)

His glasses fetish is probably what remained of that old crush.

I don't think Kyousuke was referring to Manami with that statement though, I think he meant something along the lines of "i should have realized the person I truly love was there even three years ago." or yeah, he could have been winging the conversation.

[s0beit]

Well, I think concerning the matter of fact, if he liked somebody back then, I would still say it's Kirino, even if he won't.

Spoiler for end:

She hugged me closer to her chest, Manami gently said:
"Kyou-chan is always like that. Whenever someone is in trouble — you can't stand it. You think 'It can't be helped' and say 'just leave it to me' and try to take care of it all alone. Isn't that because you want to make an image of 'an awesome cool onii-san' in your little sister's mind? But when faced with something that you couldn't do, Kyou-chan — you don't have to face it that way."
"— Because Kyou-chan is just an ordinary boy."
That was what placed a shadow in my mind.
— I might not be the one to say this but I'm an ordinary high school student — [2]
Even three years later, I still considered myself that way.
Those words hit my weakness.
"…I see. I'm an ordinary boy."
"Yes. Normal. Just like me."
It's not like I don't know that. Actually, I had noticed it long ago. That I'm not special or anything. Just a normal, ordinary boy.
But since I broke my own seal, 'It can't be helped,' I always tried to take care of everything — 'just leave it to me.'
"…Why am I always trying to act tough?"
"Because you want to show off."
"To whom?"
"To me — and to your little sister."
"Kirino? Me? I want to show off to her?"
"Yes. Isn't that right?"
If it was only Manami, I could have agreed, because truely, I really did that.
But — to Kirino.
"Kyou-chan, whenever you talk with me, you always speak about 'how I show off in front of my little sister.'
"…Did I…"
I don't remember. But what if Manami is right…?

Well, at that time he was being comforted by Manami and hugged too, so I guess it's whatever you want to think.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't think it really causes a "plot hole", because consider the glacial pace of their relationship even at the start of the show. Even if they did "like each other", they'd known each other for so long that they were practically family (which is part of the irony of the clash between Manami and Kirino; they were both close enough to Kyousuke to be at least "like" a sibling to him). What motivation did either of them have to pull the trigger? What's the rush?

(I've definitely known people where they both had feelings for the other person, didn't confess for whatever reason, later moved on in their lives, and way after realized that back then their feelings were mutual. It certainly happens.)

Again, I'm not sure that we have to infer too much here. Even though he didn't love her, he would have been happy to take that confession as a symbol of gratitude. He still says that he would have rejected her due to loving someone else.

I guess I'm just not sure why we should think he's lying.

The problem becomes all the times he's asked if he likes her point-blank, and even when Manami confessed some volumes ago. He had absolutely no interest, and treated her more like family than Kirino, meaning, I truly believe he had no romantic attachment to her.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by s0beit

Well, I think concerning the matter of fact, if he liked somebody back then, I would still say it's Kirino, even if he won't.

Well, I'll grant you that it's possible he may have thought he was in love with Manami, but actually he wasn't. He does say:

"If it was only Manami, I could have agreed, because truely [sic], I really did [think] that."

He did think at the time that he wanted to impress Manami, but did not realize that he wanted to impress Kirino.

Then again, I'm not sure we can really expect him to have all his feelings figured out at that age anyway.

Originally Posted by s0beit

The problem becomes all the times he's asked if he likes her point-blank, and even when Manami confessed some volumes ago. He had absolutely no interest, and treated her more like family than Kirino, meaning, I truly believe he had no romantic attachment to her.

I can definitely buy what Ricadan suggested that his feelings may have changed a bit after spending so much time with her over the years, to the point where he couldn't really see her as a love interest anymore. Certainly, by the point in time where a whole bunch of other attractive women start entering his life, I can see why he'd be to the point of denying his interest, but I actually don't think he truly felt nothing towards her, even early in the story.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Again, I'm not sure that we have to infer too much here. Even though he didn't love her, he would have been happy to take that confession as a symbol of gratitude. He still says that he would have rejected her due to loving someone else.

I guess I'm just not sure why we should think he's lying.

Yeah, I also considered that. But I'm not suggesting he was lying, just that perhaps under some circumstances, withheld the truth. I personally wouldn't consider it a lie (due to the negative connotation associated with this word), if he really had liked Sakurai to a certain degree and then told her his answer back then would have been the same.

Anyway, my point is, I think most likely it's that he did not like anybody in a real romantical sense back them. There were a number of people he wanted to show-off to (notably Kirino), and cared for, but they were still not nearly in the range for being considered as love interests.

[tommythecat]

It certainly is ironic how positions shifted as a result of Manami scaring Kirino off setting up the dominos for the exact opposite to happen. Manami became like family and Kirino became a stranger. Thus allowing feelings of romantic love blossom between siblings and wane between childhood friends.

[Ricadan]

Originally Posted by tommythecat

It certainly is ironic how positions shifted as a result of Manami scaring Kirino off setting up the dominos for the exact opposite to happen. Manami became like family and Kirino became a stranger. Thus allowing feelings of romantic love blossom between siblings and wane between childhood friends.

...what if that is why the S1 opener is called irony?
Wow, how much of this had Fushimi actually planned?

[seangel92]

Manami is a grandma and Kirino is fresh meat.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Ricadan

...what if that is why the S1 opener is called irony?
Wow, how much of this had Fushimi actually planned?

Nah, if you read the lyrics, "irony" is an explanation/reflection of Kirino's contradictory behaviour. (Trying to get closer to someone, but pushing them away due to misunderstandings, still hoping eventually to make progress.)

But, this notwithstanding, for many reasons I think that the author had the ending for the story planned long in advance. If not right from the start, then not too long thereafter, given the hints that were dropped along the way.

[Sakuratsuki]

Really this novel gives you a hard time lol. The writter really trows things in the story that make you think. WHAT THE HELL! did he just said but didn't............................

This novel is just like a labirynth full of hints for different interpetations. Or maybe it is because of the rough translations/summary's?