Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Thess

Exactly my thoughts. I'm amused they conceive Lieselotte as some frail damsel when she's aiding dangerous terrorists and sassing Cain when she isn't tortured.

I'd love to know how insinuating she has a different moral compass than L-Elf translates into being a "frail damsel". She's not daft enough to question shooting soldiers who were no doubt shooting back.

Why would she care about perfect strangers from another country? You saw in the scene with the Jior mention that she didn't even care about their welfare, only L-Elf's. Look, she's not going to hate or something drastic. At most she'll frown if she disappears and tell him to drop it, but she loves him and they are just a bunch of unimportant strangers. You're making a huge deal about things that will never be mentioned again. Do you think anyone would bring up "oh no, you shot this side character who died a few episodes ago, L-Elf!" "Oh no, you were toughing up Shoko into becoming a true Prime Minister, L-Elf!"

Realizing how close he was to her location automatically translates into not giving a damn about other people now? Even though she just authorized Kriemhilde to help them reach their people? You're making a lot of leaps in logic here. And no, I do not expect the characters to go back and mention stuff that has already happened but let's not play dumb and assume similar things can't happen in the future.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

I assume he's body jacked, not dead, at least not physically. Also, I particularly meant from the JIOR side, sorry if I wasn't specific.

If he's alive, they can't jack him because they need runes supplies for the ritual. Seems their jacking is different and takes that. They were supposedly going to use the Moon to replenish them.

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I'd love to know how insinuating she has a different moral compass than L-Elf translates into being a "frail damsel". She's not daft enough to question shooting soldiers who were no doubt shooting back.

I'd love to know how you assume she would actually make a big deal about it or things that were unimportant (Marie) and even beneficial (for Shoko and the Module) would be brought up and she would find out by telepathy? I mean, please tell me, how exactly she'll know?

She's not daft, as you say. L-Elf has a clear utilitarian nature. She can ground him if she's in contact with him, but this doesn't mean they'll have a drifting conflict. L-Elf respected her decision in the past, as much it hurt him when she was right they had no future ahead in those conditions.

[Kurohane]

Well, as long as we don't see a body, we can assume the magius are now using him for their purposes e.g. extracting his runes.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And Seki Toshihiko. SEKI TOSHIHIKO. Thank you.

I hope you're watching Gingitsune...

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Delusion level: Ismay or joke?

The evidence was always slim at best and has just taken a major blow, so "no holes" is quite optimistic. From this moment, no matter what we do, the L11xShoko will founder (or at best, look incredibly forced).

Still a damn shame about the AmataxZessica though. She was a fine ship, she was

----

Regarding Lise, I also hope she can avoid her death flags, for one because it would just be so very obvious and predictable, for another because she is interesting as a character, and I don't see the point of her appearing just to get offed a few seconds later.

Forced? Doubtful. No one in Valvrave has the chemistry that Shoko and L-Elf have with each other. Progress between them has been put on halt because they've been separated due to their duties as no one else can run the module like Shoko and no one can ensure the success of the mission but L-Elf. When they're together again it wont be forced as they're very natural when around each other with either having adjusted to the other by the start of Cour 2.

The only problem is getting L-Elf and Shoko back together which we wont know how til L-Elf gets out of that place already as they've spent a very long time on this going away mission as is.

Besides, Saki only needed a single episode to fall for Haruto and Haruto to develop feelings, and later guilt, for her. So an episode that gets Shoko and L-Elf together in the spotlight is all that's really needed now as they've interacted plenty in the past already.

-

Regarding the Prince of the future that looks like L-Elf. I don't see why he must be related to a distant L-Elf x Lise coupling as Lise has zero claim to the module which is run by election and L-Elf is already royalty already, apparently.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled a twist and revealed L-Elf and Lise as siblings or cousins.

[Kurohane]

^ Fate, what has been mangakid95 been trying to tell you in the Shoko thread. You can call those little moments they have ship teases, but it's nothing substantial. L-elf doesn't view Shoko like that, nor does he have any attraction to her. Your taking too much of their interactions. It's like saying Marie and Haruto should get together with the few moments they had.

[erika4dsl]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled a twist and revealed L-Elf and Lise as siblings or cousins.

With the twists and turns this anime has pulled so far I wouldn't be surprised lol. I'm not dropping the Shoko and L-Elf ship so fast, I still have hope lol plus it's fun to ship the two of them since they're so different from each other lol.

[Destined_Fate]

I don't know who you're talking about.

I'm simply great at observations and picking up on things others tend to miss or dismiss too readily. I also don't abandon ship just because the winds aren't favorable some days when they were awesome just the other day. I see things through to the end.

L-Elf clearly has a great deal of respect for Shoko due to him wanting to keep her in good health and not having second doubts about her running the module all on her own as he went on a field trip with her entire staff.

Marie has had far less moments with Haruto than Shoko has had with L-Elf. L-Elf has also been established as being very interested in Shoko when she was the first to beat him to the punch near the start of the series. He also saw her as the Leader of the module long before she was elected into office.

-

Well look at Lise and L-Elf's skin color and hair. Very similar, too similar to be a coincidence. Them having some family relation wouldn't be all that off the wall.

There's also the possibility that Lise may no longer be the person L-Elf knows when they meet next episode.

[NeutralZero]

well in shipping its not over until its truly over...

but in the image tread, there a relationship map or whatnot about Liz and someone mentioned that she is L11's love
not certain if its in the present tense or past...

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I don't know who you're talking about.

I'm simply great at observations and picking up on things others tend to miss or dismiss too readily. I also don't abandon ship just because the winds aren't favorable some days when they were awesome just the other day. I see things through to the end.

L-Elf clearly has a great deal of respect for Shoko due to him wanting to keep her in good health and not having second doubts about her running the module all on her own as he went on a field trip with her entire staff.

Marie has had far less moments with Haruto than Shoko has had with L-Elf. L-Elf has also been established as being very interested in Shoko when she was the first to beat him to the punch near the start of the series. He also saw her as the Leader of the module long before she was elected into office.

-

Well look at Lise and L-Elf's skin color and hair. Very similar, too similar to be a coincidence. Them having some family relation wouldn't be all that off the wall.

There's also the possibility that Lise may no longer be the person L-Elf knows when they meet next episode.

Or your showing your favoritism. There are pairing wars that have been started due to people being hopelessly in love with their paring that they can't bear to see anything else. The Valvrave fanbase hasn't become that just yet, and I doubt it ever will, but you obviously have shown signs of wearing shipping goggles.

Also, I say it's fairly obvious she is as we've seen that chamber is hurting her, and that she was being punished for betraying the magius recently.

[Destined_Fate]

Love can mean many things. If it said Lover or was "In Love" than it would be definite. Since it was neither it means nothing can be concluded regarding their relationship in modern times, after all the time that has passed, until they meet again in the next episode and interact.

Furthermore, loving Lise doesn't mean that he cannot also have strong feelings, such as love, for Shoko too. That and if he's truly in love with Lise than that pretty much means that she's going to die which would be such a waste of her character.

After all, Haruto has very strong feelings for Shoko and Saki.

-

You say favoritism, I say keen on details.

A war requires arguing. Are we arguing? I'm not.

Or it's her punishment for giving half her life to L-Elf when they were younger as she hasn't actually done anything recently in the series to deserve punishment that we know of or seen. What with her not actually being in the series other than flashbacks for the most part up to this point.

[erika4dsl]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Furthermore, loving Lise doesn't mean that he cannot also have strong feelings, such as love, for Shoko too. That and if he's truly in love with Lise than that pretty much means that she's going to die which would be such a waste of her character.

After all, Haruto has very strong feelings for Shoko and Saki.

Yeah you're not limited to loving only one person, the more the better right! Haha. The next episodes should answer whether or not L-Elf and Shoko will ever happen, but if it doesn't then that's totally fine, that's what your imagination and fanfiction/fanart is for AND it would be boring if everyone had the same opinion and always shipped the same people. I say if you still ship 'em still then have fun! I still ship L-Elf and Shoko because it's fun.

[playmaker2k]

It's starting to get messy, but I'll just say this as viewer and a non-shipper for Valvrave.

L-Elf's whole mission is to free Liselotte from her royal prison and look for a country where she'll be safe.

He hasn't seen her in 3 years and keeps a photo of her as a reminder.
That picture even caused Haruto in Michael's body to start crying.

And the way he looked at her at the end of Episode 18 isn't someone who has platonic feelings.

Michael has never shown that expression before.

He loves that girl.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Love can mean many things. If it said Lover or was "In Love" than it would be definite. Since it was neither it means nothing can be concluded regarding their relationship in modern times, after all the time that has passed, until they meet again in the next episode and interact.

Furthermore, loving Lise doesn't mean that he cannot also have strong feelings, such as love, for Shoko too. That and if he's truly in love with Lise than that pretty much means that she's going to die which would be such a waste of her character.

After all, Haruto has very strong feelings for Shoko and Saki.

-

You say favoritism, I say keen on details.

A war requires arguing. Are we arguing? I'm not.

Or it's her punishment for giving half her life to L-Elf when they were younger as she hasn't actually done anything recently in the series to deserve punishment that we know of or seen. What with her not actually being in the series other than flashbacks for the most part up to this point.

Yeah, but that's taking a big jump of faith, that I wouldn't recommend. I've tried that with ships from other series and most of the time, I was knocked down. It's not just the scan in the image thread. This episode in particular says it all. L-elf abandoned the mission to search for Lieselotte. L-elf, of all people! Plus we have hints from Lieselotte as well, with the mention of the JIORans the first person she thought of was L-elf, and thanks to that we know his first name now. Also, not just what they said, their expressions and reactions in their reunion show great effect. I'm not saying it's downright confirmed, but it's looking to be that way, and has a strong following.

With the pairing war, I simply meant to convey how serious these things can be taken. Valvrave fans haven't gone that off the deep end, (Thank goodness), and hopefully never will.

Why should she be punished now for something that happened years ago, and is meant to be taken as symbolic? No, this episode proved she's secretly helping people who are against the current regime anyway she can. No doubt, she did something that hindered the magius, but we don't now what exactly she did yet.

[Destined_Fate]

Yes but it doesn't mean he's "in love" with her. There are many forms of love after all. Best to wait and see.

-

Of course he abandoned the mission. He loves Lise, even if we aren't sure if he's "in love" with her or still "in love" with her, and his whole reasoning at the start of the series was to free her. After all he owes her a debt and when everyone else didn't care if he lived or died
Lise saved him even when he threatened her life. Not to mention that he didn't develop a bond with Shoko and even Haruto til after he had set out on a mission he has had in the works for years.

That's why I said interaction which involves more than just words. Hell, if they want to make it blatant they can have L-Elf pull her in for a kiss or she'll kiss him. Though the most likely scenario is that she hugs him only as dragging this out is in their best interests as killing the hopes of parts of the fanbase at this time isn't a sound business decision. Especially with how popular Shoko and L-Elf as a couple ended up becoming.

I don't bother with those that get angry over fictional characters. They don't like a ship they can just ignore it like I do for ships I don't support. After all, why get angry because someone else thinks certain characters look great together? Their view, not mine. So it doesn't affect me at all.

I doubt she's only being punished now. I'm sure she has been punished quite a bit over the years and we just haven't seen her routine torture until now. Or like you said she pushed her luck and hijacked the Magius after learning that L-Elf was at Neo-JIOR. Thus it'll be convenient for L-Elf to come save her at this time now for the story for dramatic effect.

[Kakkou]

Let's leave the shipping discussion to the character threads and out of the episode thread where Shoko herself has zero screentime or mentions in. Plus debating with someone whose shipping goggles are on so strong that they've fused with their eyes does not make for a worthwhile discussion on either end.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Yes but it doesn't mean he's "in love" with her. There are many forms of love after all.

The context of that line is the same that he challenged Haruto in episode 1, if he was going to split in half the one he loves. You don't use "aishita onna" for your friend, but your lover. You don't share your woman.

[KleenexGhost]

So... Anyone else thinking there are gonna be a few people left behind?

Namely Satomi and Saki.

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

So... Anyone else thinking there are gonna be a few people left behind?

Namely Satomi and Saki.

Why Satomi? Because he was in the flashforward? Doubtful. Saki seems like a possible candidate but otherwise the rest will probably get away.

[Chibikiwi]

Originally Posted by Thess

The context of that line is the same that he challenged Haruto in episode 1, if he was going to split in half the one he loves. You don't use "aishita onna" for your friend, but your lover. You don't share your woman.

Exactly, a japanese friend of mine told me that when L-Elf said that he was referring to splitting a woman one loves romantically and since the magazine says L-Elf was referring to Lise, then he must be in love with her.

I don't think anyone will get left behind, hopefully.