(L) Zankyou no Terror (Terror in Tokyo)

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Now that the Five plotline is over, I can safely say it was garbage. There was no depth to the her character, as I suspected. Good riddance. Too bad it happened so late. There was really no point in dragging this out for so long, they should have spent 3 episodes on her max. Blunder of the year.

As much as I hate to admit it, after a lot of deliberation I must now concur with the critics. The show would have indeed been better without her.

[Jerseykid]

Five so deserved a better kiss than that

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Haak

As much as I hate to admit it, after a lot of deliberation I must now concur with the critics. The show would have indeed been better without her.

Now that her plot line is over, I kind of have to agree? What exactly did she accomplish? Not much really? It's the Japanese government, not the Americans, that were the bad guys here. And Clarence was stupid to let her go so far, he even died from the oldest trick in the book. Why the heck would you let your guard down around a psychopathic woman, you know is desperate and smarter than you, and has a gun that you saw her use a few seconds ago?!

The Americans were just trying to uncover that the Japanese were developing a new experimental atomic weapon behind closed doors, and they had already been the ones to uncover and take down their Athena Plan. Five's obsession wasn't really helping and never really meant anything in the end. Her involvement just pushed up the boys time table.

Though I have to say that her actions did inadvertently help with Shibazaki finding out about everything and also served as the tool to drive a wedge between 9 and 12. But nothing really beyond that?

Well, we'll see what goes on next episode. Did they ever mention in the show what "VON" meant? Or what 9 meant by his "cold land" comment? All three kids seem to know what it means, but I'm not sure if anyone has figured it out yet.

[mweloo]

I think Five being one-dimensional/lacking depth was kind of the point. I think she's supposed to feel hollow- an empty shell of what she might have been otherwise. If she and Nine had been raised like normal kids, they might have been friends, even lovers. As it is however, any feelings she has for him manifests in her twisted obsession with playing with him- because it's probably the sole meaningful connection she's had. Consequently, that kiss she gave him felt lacking. I like Five- she exhibits the villain-victim dichotomy more clearly than anyone else in the show, and is ultimately a product of her circumstances (I don't see how a child who'd been raised in the Settlement, saw a whole bunch of other kids die and then ended up as a government tool would not end up insane in one way or another). Someone said that despite her mature appearance and whatnot, Five is a seriously messed up child- even more so than Nine and Twelve, who at least experienced some kind of liberation after escaping from the Settlement- and I quite agree with the sentiment.

[psycho bolt]

This series had a promising start...now its meh. I'll give my early rating here as 7/10. The story and characters were lacking somewhat, but the highlights were mainly the music and scenes.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well, we'll see what goes on next episode. Did they ever mention in the show what "VON" meant? Or what 9 meant by his "cold land" comment? All three kids seem to know what it means, but I'm not sure if anyone has figured it out yet.

"Von" means "hope" in Icelandic, and Iceland is a cold land. Maybe 9's got some ties there?

Or maybe he's just a Björk or Sigur Rós fan, I dunno (and find it hard to really care at this point).

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by mweloo

I think Five being one-dimensional/lacking depth was kind of the point. I think she's supposed to feel hollow- an empty shell of what she might have been otherwise. If she and Nine had been raised like normal kids, they might have been friends, even lovers. As it is however, any feelings she has for him manifests in her twisted obsession with playing with him- because it's probably the sole meaningful connection she's had. Consequently, that kiss she gave him felt lacking. I like Five- she exhibits the villain-victim dichotomy more clearly than anyone else in the show, and is ultimately a product of her circumstances (I don't see how a child who'd been raised in the Settlement, saw a whole bunch of other kids die and then ended up as a government tool would not end up insane in one way or another). Someone said that despite her mature appearance and whatnot, Five is a seriously messed up child- even more so than Nine and Twelve, who at least experienced some kind of liberation after escaping from the Settlement- and I quite agree with the sentiment.

Yeah, I read a really good review on this episode, and it made me kind of understand what was going on with Five. I mean, we forget that not only are 5,9, and 12 kids, but they were kids artificially made to be savants. They have there own emotional issues going on, but they also have a syndrome where they really can't get along with others very well, and they think on a different wavelength. Also, all of them have lost their childhood in a traumatic way which really throws off their mental health. Five probably had found nothing enjoyable in the settlement other than her games with Nine. She brought that obsession to a crazy level and she continues to build the stakes to make the game even more "fun". However, in the end, she failed, Nine still won. She never broke him, Twelve still came for him. So, having finally lost, the game was over for her, and she completely lost her reason to live. Really, it's all so tragic when you think about it. I really just feel pity for her.

[DorkingtonPugsly]

Well that was a pretty good episode. 5 could've been a better character and motivator for the plot but I guess the script just didn't come out perfect. This episode did redeem her character a bit though. It's often a thing where they try to fit in too many ideas, symbols, characters etc and even if they think the story's good it juts turns out a bit cramped.

They used new tracks in there that I'll be looking forward to hearing when the 2nd ost comes out in october.

The end should be good.

[Om Nerabdator]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

@zerriet

Essentially, Five's introduction changed the flow of the story from something mysterious and intriguing to an outlandish style of crazy "I'm the bad guy" type of story. Five's character is ridiculous in its portrayal, doing things that would be plainly stupid villain type (setting off bombs to kill innocent civilians). She is just a failed attempt at creating another "L".

not too mention the authorities let the bombs go off, all sense of realism went out the window and made this show hard to watch without face palming

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by Haak

As much as I hate to admit it, after a lot of deliberation I must now concur with the critics. The show would have indeed been better without her.

That's how I feel about Lisa. Five never bothered me, Lisa did nothing other then being a pain in the side of 9 and 12. Her forced comedy at trying to be normal and help with cringe inducing. I had high hopes for her after she ran away but ended up being another stereotypical damsel in distress.

[BPD Renegade]

Wait. What just happened? Excuse me for a moment while I collect my thoughts...

--Edit--

At first I was at a loss as to what exactly to make of Five and her purpose in the plot. Mweloo provided an excellent perspective, and I've come to appreciate Five's character because of this; however, I still am not comfortable with accepting the inconsistency with her behavior before and after her last meeting with Nine and writing it off as a psychological issue. I have no qualms with her end, but the obsessive/possessive demeanor she portrayed up to that point didn't fit with that final scene. It seemed like the manic obsession with "not letting anyone else have Nine" was forced in order to lead up to that point and its "shocking" conclusion, which detracted from the scene's intended impact.

Another point of discomfort that came to mind was the meeting with Mamiya. Throughout the series, we were given tidbits that made it seem like he would be the "final" barrier to the revelation of whatever truth would be uncovered. Wasn't this the guy who caused Shibazaki's initial demotion? Wasn't it just last episode that we were told a man died three years prior for wanting to confess? Instead, this episode, Shibazaki is allowed an audience with the main perpetrator himself, and there were no repercussions from it.

While psychological implications (in Five's case) and jadedness/old age (Mamiya's case) can be used as explanations for these inconsistencies, it still feels like the show was intentionally misleading us by placing an inordinate amount of emphasis on the threat each of these factors possessed to each of our main characters, only to pull back at the last moment. As a member of the audience, I feel like I was unnecessarily toyed with in order to keep me vested in the show -- a show I would have continued to watch regardless of this emphasis. This leaves me with a bit of an unpleasant aftertaste.

Despite all this, I still very much enjoyed Zankyou, even though it fell short of its potential. If not for the fact that I haven't watched Tokyo Ghoul, I would consider it the best serious anime of the season. The next episode is titled "VON." Looking forward to seeing how this concludes.

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

That's how I feel about Lisa. Five never bothered me, Lisa did nothing other then being a pain in the side of 9 and 12. Her forced comedy at trying to be normal and help with cringe inducing. I had high hopes for her after she ran away but ended up being another stereotypical damsel in distress.

This. This is my main issue with the show and why I gradually (and now completely) lost all hope in ever considering it a remotely good series. Five was damaging in her own way but her antics were still tolerable compared to Lisa who brought the series down by merely breathing. There were so many directions the writer(s) could have taken her character but in the end they chose the most typical, boring route of making her utterly useless with added 'Oh no she can't cook look how funny she is putting Pocky in curry' nonsense.

It doesn't help that Twelve turned out to be a disappointing character too despite all the promising signs the first episode gave. Ultimately Lisa only served to bring out that side of him and have the duo break up in the most cringe worthy way possible. And of course she has to be the one to convince the traitor to go rescue Nine. Best not to even think about why Five's group even let them go in the first place, it's not like realism is a strong point of the show.

...Man, I wish the show had sub-par direction and production to go with the writing so I wouldn't feel this disappointed over how it turned out. Such a shame. Truly a shame.

[helenobell]

Originally Posted by BPD Renegade

Wait. What just happened? Excuse me for a moment while I collect my thoughts...

--Edit--

At first I was at a loss as to what exactly to make of Five and her purpose in the plot. Mweloo provided an excellent perspective, and I've come to appreciate Five's character because of this; however, I still am not comfortable with accepting the inconsistency with her behavior before and after her last meeting with Nine and writing it off as a psychological issue. I have no qualms with her end, but the obsessive/possessive demeanor she portrayed up to that point didn't fit with that final scene. It seemed like the manic obsession with "not letting anyone else have Nine" was forced in order to lead up to that point and its "shocking" conclusion, which detracted from the scene's intended impact.

Another point of discomfort that came to mind was the meeting with Mamiya. Throughout the series, we were given tidbits that made it seem like he would be the "final" barrier to the revelation of whatever truth would be uncovered. Wasn't this the guy who caused Shibazaki's initial demotion? Wasn't it just last episode that we were told a man died three years prior for wanting to confess? Instead, this episode, Shibazaki is allowed an audience with the main perpetrator himself, and there were no repercussions from it.

While psychological implications (in Five's case) and jadedness/old age (Mamiya's case) can be used as explanations for these inconsistencies, it still feels like the show was intentionally misleading us by placing an inordinate amount of emphasis on the threat each of these factors possessed to each of our main characters, only to pull back at the last moment. As a member of the audience, I feel like I was unnecessarily toyed with in order to keep me vested in the show -- a show I would have continued to watch regardless of this emphasis. This leaves me with a bit of an unpleasant aftertaste.

Despite all this, I still very much enjoyed Zankyou, even though it fell short of its potential. If not for the fact that I haven't watched Tokyo Ghoul, I would consider it the best serious anime of the season. The next episode is titled "VON." Looking forward to seeing how this concludes.

Well, consider this. Five seems to enjoy leaving her mark on people- remember the scene in which she painted Lisa's nails black? By telling Nine to live for her sake as well as his own, she's leaving her mark on him. She's posthumously and irreplaceably made him indebted to her- in a sense, that could be seen as possession. And unlike Nine, she never seemed completely resigned to the fact that she might die- the first scene we saw of her having the headache had her saying "This isn't a joke.". I actually believe she was considering killing Nine for a while because she was pointing the gun at him and making sure that no other living person gets their hands on him, but then her vision blurred, and she seemed to gain a bit of perspective in that moment. If Five's obsessed with Nine because he came closest to forming a meaningful connection with her, you could see that line as her way of making sure that their connection lives on.

[BPD Renegade]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

That's how I feel about Lisa. Five never bothered me, Lisa did nothing other then being a pain in the side of 9 and 12. Her forced comedy at trying to be normal and help with cringe inducing. I had high hopes for her after she ran away but ended up being another stereotypical damsel in distress.

While I agree with your sentiments in not being entirely pleased with the extent of Lisa's role, I don't think the producers were actually trying to make those scenes genuinely comedic; rather, they were attempting to highlight the awkwardness of her feelings and situation. For people with low self-esteem and social issues like Lisa, there is a feeling of intense discomfort around other people, and a need to do or say things to put themselves in a "better" light, only most of the time, these attempts result in annoyance from people who don't understand their situation, or perceived annoyance, as in Lisa's case, causing them to feel even worse than before, even with people like Twelve who try to help them believe otherwise. Lisa's characterization was incredibly realistic, and knowing exactly what she is feeling despite the "smile" and futile attempts at helping makes me genuinely empathize with her.

Sorry, I was trying to write this from an outside perspective, and state that after episode four, the realism began to come at the cost of the narrative, but thinking about last episode's scene, with Twelve telling Lisa that she doesn't have to say sorry anymore... I can't think about this anymore. It's making me start to cry. I don't think people who hated that development realize how important it is to have someone that will genuinely care enough for you to tell you to stop placing all the blame on your shoulders, to stop apologizing because you don't know what else to say, because you don't know what you're here for. When you are constantly apologizing, even as a "joke", sometimes not even knowing what you are apologizing for, some people tell you not to, but how many actually say it as an off-handed remark and not out of genuine concern for you?

*Breathes* My post just completely derailed. What I'm trying to say is that if we look at this in a narrow perspective and focus only on Lisa as a main character, her storyline is beautiful. I don't see Twelve as a romantic partner for her, but as someone who sees her and accepts her, who is trying to save her from herself with kindness. It's when we step back and look at the entire story as a whole, that this realistic depiction doesn't quite fit.

In essence, Zankyou no Terror is like a clock with beautiful working gears, except these gears don't quite fit together quite that well, even if the clock keeps running.

[Haruyasha]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

She is just a failed attempt at creating another "L".

I'm not seeing it. She's more of a mix of the presumptious prick Near and the terrorist Mello. (Both of which are disgusting characters.)

Shibazaki is the L of the series.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Haruyasha

I'm not seeing it. She's more of a mix of Near and Mello.

Shibazaki is the L of the series.

Yeah, I've been saying this from the start. Shibazaki even had the public broadcast moment when he announced himself as the detective that would hunt down Sphinx, just like L did with Light.

Five has Near's amorality, hair and eccentricity, and Mello's irreverence and recklessness. Too bad that unlike them she was ultimately rather pointless as a rival character for the protagonist(s).

[mweloo]

I still think this is one of the best shows this season- though I think part of that stems from the fact that the show never really struck me as realistic to begin with. I'm of the opinion the that both Lisa and Five are essential to this story, and I enjoy what they contribute thematically. (BDP's remarks about the Ferris Wheel scene echo my own sentiments and helenobell provided a few interesting points of Five that may add dimension to how I interpret the character.)

My problem is that that the story they're trying to tell with these five individuals seems to be a bit over-ambitious for an eleven-episode series. As a result, the narrative seems a bit disjointed at times. I don't think this is a problem that popped up with Five joining the cast, though- I believe it was present even before that. It needn't have been 2 cour- even 2-4 more episodes would have benefitted this series exponentially.

After watching this and Kids on the Slope, I get the feeling that Watanabe and brevity don't jive well together. He works better when he has enough episodes to build things up- which is what we got in the first 3 episodes.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Haruyasha

I'm not seeing it. She's more of a mix of the presumptious prick Near and the terrorist Mello. (Both of which are disgusting characters.)

Shibazaki is the L of the series.

That is why I said it was another failed attempt at L. Near and Mello were the first failed attempts at L.

Spoilers

Spoiler for Death Note series

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

But yes, I do agree that Five is a mixture of all 3 characters - L, Near, and Melo. She is similar to L (the prototype) because she is a genius in figuring things out and helps the authorities against the dark, genius protagonist.

As for Lisa, yes, I do wish she was more developed in the story, but her character served as normalcy in the story, compared to the other main characters, who are extraordinary in their own ways. Also, she is the one to bring out Twelve's "human" emotions, especially giving him insight into how others feel at the end with Lisa letting Twelve know how happy she was when he came for her.

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by BPD Renegade

While I agree with your sentiments in not being entirely pleased with the extent of Lisa's role, I don't think the producers were actually trying to make those scenes genuinely comedic; rather, they were attempting to highlight the awkwardness of her feelings and situation. For people with low self-esteem and social issues like Lisa, there is a feeling of intense discomfort around other people, and a need to do or say things to put themselves in a "better" light, only most of the time, these attempts result in annoyance from people who don't understand their situation, or perceived annoyance, as in Lisa's case, causing them to feel even worse than before, even with people like Twelve who try to help them believe otherwise. Lisa's characterization was incredibly realistic, and knowing exactly what she is feeling despite the "smile" and futile attempts at helping makes me genuinely empathize with her.

Sorry, I was trying to write this from an outside perspective, and state that after episode four, the realism began to come at the cost of the narrative, but thinking about last episode's scene, with Twelve telling Lisa that she doesn't have to say sorry anymore... I can't think about this anymore. It's making me start to cry. I don't think people who hated that development realize how important it is to have someone that will genuinely care enough for you to tell you to stop placing all the blame on your shoulders, to stop apologizing because you don't know what else to say, because you don't know what you're here for. When you are constantly apologizing, even as a "joke", sometimes not even knowing what you are apologizing for, some people tell you not to, but how many actually say it as an off-handed remark and not out of genuine concern for you?

*Breathes* My post just completely derailed. What I'm trying to say is that if we look at this in a narrow perspective and focus only on Lisa as a main character, her storyline is beautiful. I don't see Twelve as a romantic partner for her, but as someone who sees her and accepts her, who is trying to save her from herself with kindness. It's when we step back and look at the entire story as a whole, that this realistic depiction doesn't quite fit.

In essence, Zankyou no Terror is like a clock with beautiful working gears, except these gears don't quite fit together quite that well, even if the clock keeps running.

You make a very good argument for her case, I commend you on it. I'm not saying her actions weren't realistic, it was just the over emphasis on the part of the writers I guess that made it feel...more awkward then it should have been. In the end I didn't feel sorry for her, which Im sure the audience was suppose too. I never expected her to get on the level of 9 and 12 but I guess I just expected more from her. She wants to help and though someone in her situation, if this had been real, probably would have gotten kidnapped, it just felt forced.

I'm not sure how she could have been different since she's not a terrorist, just a lost girl who wanted a better life. I just figure after she said what she did to 12 on the motorcycle, she'd be a bit stronger.... I dunno.

I get why the writers put her in, I just feel she didn't live up to it.

Despite all this, I still very much enjoyed Zankyou, even though it fell short of its potential.

Im bashing Lisa but I do agree with this, I still enjoyed it, I just had to separate myself during her scenes and some of 5's. It's...hard to explain

[Charchoroth]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Atomic bomb high up in the air....
I am sorry 9, even you intend not o kill, but what about the pollution?
I am pretty sure the air won't be safe to breath for a good while.

IIRC, The bomb was attached to a weather balloon, or some other kind of similar device. Weather balloons have a fairly predictable lifespan. Depending on the amount of gas used as a buoyancy agent and the material of the balloon, the operator can closely control the rate of ascension and set a maximum altitude to be reached before environmental factors disintegrate it and it falls to earth. All this provides a pretty stable platform for weather observation, and apparently less benign endeavours...

For geniuses, I'll give them the credit to be smart enough to account for air currents and other factors. Even if something did go wrong, they could even have a back up R/C device to destroy the balloon and cause it to fall so that it reached a lower enough altitude to do a lot of damage. This isn't a highly focused weapon. 'Close' might only count in horseshoes and hand grenades, but an atomic bomb is much, much more powerful with a greater margin of acceptable error.