Romance in Code Geass (Take 2)

[Var]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

Looking at how fervently people argue the romance point, I can't help but wonder what some of the Kallen crowd will do if Lelouch x C.C. suddenly just comes to the front. Does enjoyment of this show depend so heavily on something that's clearly not one of its critical points?

Just about anything can happen right now, even Shirley can just pop up out of left field and take the lead. The only problem I'd have with a sudden 'comes to the front', no matter the character, is if it were rushed. Within the first 12 or so episodes Ill be fine with it; after, though, and I'll just be going .

And I doubt anyone's enjoyment of this show is based on these pairings, if it were, then they're watching the wrong show.

There's one thing that I'd like to echo, though, and its from Blue_Mercy, and that is that I'd rather have Lelouch end with one of the people who helped him out of his rut. So while its possible for anyone to take the lead, I'm personally inclined to favor the people who have within the recent time actually helped Lelouch.

[Dann of Thursday]

Pretty much, which is why C.C. is such a low probability now if she ever was a consideration since Kallen was instrumental in helping him with his problem in 7. C.C. hasn't done anything at all these first few episodes really except give Lelouch his identity back.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Witacume

i loled. salt just got owned. white flag is up. Var 1 Salt 0
Anyways i was thinking when are those three girls going to finally show up. Its crazy that they haven't even been mention yet in the show.

Edit i found them in this episode little cameo. http://randomc.animeblogger.net/imag...Large%2018.jpg

How so? I'm just very tired. ><

Been debating the whole day with Dann.

Here is the Var conversation :

Originally Posted by nanatsusaya

You keep saying that Lelouch doesn't care that much about C.C., but did he ever care for Kallen?

Originally Posted by Var

Episode 7: He tried to run after her. So, yes.

Originally Posted by Salt

You got that from that one act, that he didn't even get to execute to completion.

Maybe, he would have gave up half way before even getting to her. And just go "blah" and start resuming his mopping.

Maybe he just wanted to apologize for the way he acted, and that he just needs sometime alone now.

Don't see any thing romantic there.

Originally Posted by Var

Strawman much? I can't prove any such thing but I can ask you the reverse for any 'possible' scene of romance between Lelouch and any character that ever ended ambiguously, which is everyone of them. So... you really don't have any kind of point.

Then why post anything at all then? Just to help ship KallenxLulu?
What happened to your critical thinking skills that you use so often to tear a part other pairs? Why not apply it here to save the site's bandwidth?

Bias maybe, I don't know, but I have never seen Var stand up for any character pair other the KallenxLulu.

What can I say:

At this point, it cease to be a discussion and becomes more a evangelism contest between a bunch of religious zealots.

And I told you not to bother, Salt. No one can win against Var in this sort of thing.

Sad to see one pair dominated the "discussion" because a bunch of special people have to keep blabbering on about it, defending their position to the death.

I'm getting very tired ...
This has turn from "Romance in Code Geass" to "Suggest a non-KallenxLulu pairing and get shot down ASAP" thread.
/sigh

[Dann of Thursday]

Sorry alright. Var's statements always get me more depressed than anyone else's since most of the time they do make good points.

I suppose C.C. may still have a shot, but I'd hope they do something soon or it's going to feel like they are just rushing it along and they'd still need to deal with Kallen in this regard. The fact that she contributed in some way at all in getting him back on his feet also gives her much higher chances than anyone else at the moment.

And at this point it does seem to some degree that they are making Kallen the LI and restricting C.C. entirely to the Geass plotline since she has been shoved to the side as she has been all season. She didn't even have a line this episode. Granted Kallen had only one that I saw and it wasn't even a complete one, but it's still something.

[k//eternal]

I'd laugh so hard if he ended up with Kaguya because it makes no sense.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I'd laugh so hard if he ended up with Kaguya because it makes no sense.

Well, if he becomes emperor, she could be part of a political marriage. :x

[k//eternal]

If we get a flat-out "Lelouch wins" ending I can see him marrying all the ones who are still alive, although I doubt it'll wind up that simple.

[Dann of Thursday]

I don't think we'll ever see him doing anything like his father did with marriages. I think he is more of the one woman kind of man myself. None of these women except maybe Kaguya seem the type to share either.

Meh, they'll probably develop one pairing enough to make it obvious in the end, but still leave it vague. I know that sounds confusing, but Taniguchi has done it twice before.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

If we get a flat-out "Lelouch wins" ending I can see him marrying all the ones who are still alive, although I doubt it'll wind up that simple.

Hmmm, Harem ...

[Stretch5920]

Originally Posted by Salt

This has turn from "Romance in Code Geass" to "Suggest a non-KallenxLulu pairing and get shot down ASAP" thread.
/sigh

blame the show for basically pushing C.C off to the side. She didn't even have any lines the last ep. While I support the Kallen and Lelouch pairing, I'm not delusional, I still think C.C will be the girl Lelouch likes, but you can't blame people for only talking about Kallen when she is the only girl being developed right now.

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I'd laugh so hard if he ended up with Kaguya because it makes no sense.

makes the most sense to me. Cute young wife who not only doesn't mind if you have an affair, she even recruits mistresses for you.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Salt

Here is the Var conversation :
...
Then why post anything at all then? Just to help ship KallenxLulu?
What happened to your critical thinking skills that you use so often to tear a part other pairs? Why not apply it here to save the site's bandwidth?

Bias maybe, I don't know, but I have never seen Var stand up for any character pair other the KallenxLulu.

Let's just start at the top.

The quote:

Originally Posted by nanatsusaya

You keep saying that Lelouch doesn't care that much about C.C., but did he ever care for Kallen?

The reply:

Originally Posted by Var

Episode 7: He tried to run after her. So, yes.

In running after Kallen, or at least in attempting, is as concrete a proof that he cares about the fact that he hurt her feelings. Does he care about her in some deep loving way? Hell if I know, but he does care about her in some way. Just like he cares about all his friends. So my answer is completely reasonable given the question to which it is a reply.

This also isn't something I have to prove, as the show proved it for me. Did you see C.C. in the memory montage, the one that had Suzaku, Nunally, Nina, and Kallen appear as visions? The fact that Kallen appears is evidence that he regards her as a friend at the very least and most people CARE for their friends.

I've stood up for plenty of characters.

Originally Posted by Salt

What can I say:

Sad to see one pair dominated the "discussion" because a bunch of special people have to keep blabbering on about it, defending their position to the death.

I'm getting very tired ...
This has turn from "Romance in Code Geass" to "Suggest a non-KallenxLulu pairing and get shot down ASAP" thread.
/sigh

I'm amused. No pair is dominating anything, you're exagurating needlessly. No one has ever anywhere, barring Dann, said that any pair will win outright. Hell, if you were to even bother looking you'd find a throng of posts which say nothing more than 'LuluxC2 are set in stone', you'd be hard pressed to find anyone say the same for Kallen or Shirley.

Bother and look even deeper and you'll find that there are plenty of reasonable scenarios for every character that have been presented. For instance, no one's been ripping apart Sol's arguments. In fact they have spawned several good discussions about Shirley.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Var

In running after Kallen, or at least in attempting, is as concrete a proof that he cares about the fact that he hurt her feelings. Does he care about her in some deep loving way? Hell if I know, but he does care about her in some way. Just like he cares about all his friends. So my answer is completely reasonable given the question to which it is a reply.

This also isn't something I have to prove, as the show proved it for me. Did you see C.C. in the memory montage, the one that had Suzaku, Nunally, Nina, and Kallen appear as visions? The fact that Kallen appears is evidence that he regards her as a friend at the very least and most people CARE for their friends.

I've stood up for plenty of characters.

I will have to agree with you on this point.

I suppose I misunderstood you, and shouldn't have throw put you in the same category as Dann.
I have been talking to you assuming you are an KallenxLulu zealot.
When I first joined the thread, your "support" of Dann and your apparent anti-C.C comments has coloured my view of you.
I suppose I joined the thread at the wrong moment.
Your somewhat aggressive tone (IMO) didn't help either. :x

Originally Posted by Var

I'm amused. No pair is dominating anything, you're exagurating needlessly. No one has ever anywhere, barring Dann, said that any pair will win outright. Hell, if you were to even bother looking you'd find a throng of posts which say nothing more than 'LuluxC2 are set in stone', you'd be hard pressed to find anyone say the same for Kallen or Shirley.

Bother and look even deeper and you'll find that there are plenty of reasonable scenarios for every character that have been presented. For instance, no one's been ripping apart Sol's arguments. In fact they have spawned several good discussions about Shirley.

Well, that the impression I had. I suppose Dann played a large part in that. -_-

[Var]

Originally Posted by Salt

I will have to agree with you on this point.

I suppose I misunderstood you, and shouldn't have throw put you in the same category as Dann.
I have been talking to you assuming you are an KallenxLulu zealot.
When I first joined the thread, your "support" of Dann and your apparent anti-C.C comments has coloured my view of you.
I suppose I joined the thread at the wrong moment.
Your somewhat aggressive tone (IMO) didn't help either. :x



Well, that the impression I had. I suppose Dann played a large part in that. -_-

I don't think I've ever supported Dann.
I do favor the pairing, but I only support it as I do because I believe it to be the only one that's currently being developed. I also don't think C2 is intended to be a romance character, maybe I'm wrong, but from my experience with general literature and stories of all kinds, C2 feels like a character who's had her time and now its time for the 'youth' so to speak. So my view is jaded, but who's isn't?

I tend to be aggressive because sarcasm doesn't work on the internet.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Var

I don't think I've ever supported Dann.
I do favor the pairing, but I only support it as I do because I believe it to be the only one that's currently being developed.

I do sense the director is allocating more time to develop the relationship between Kallen and Lelouch.
It's only this season that Kallen gets to see the real Lulu.

Originally Posted by Var

I also don't think C2 is intended to be a romance character, maybe I'm wrong, but from my experience with general literature and stories of all kinds, C2 feels like a character who's had her time and now its time for the 'youth' so to speak. So my view is jaded, but who's isn't?

I tend to be aggressive because sarcasm doesn't work on the internet.

I don't have much literature experience, I hated humanities during school.

I don't know if I have mentioned this before, I sort of came in here without much thought to pairs and stuff, except maybe I thought Lulu and Kallen will make a cute couple.

But through "debates" with Dann, where I ran through character development scenes in S1. I ironically came to see C.CxLelouch as more and more likely.
C.C and Lelouch's relationship is just so far along development wise that I don't know how the director is going to dump all that without breaking the script.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Salt

But through "debates" with Dann, where I ran through character development scenes in S1. I ironically came to see C.CxLelouch as more and more likely.
C.C and Lelouch's relationship is just so far along development wise that I don't know how the director is going to dump all that without breaking the script.

See this is where opinions vary, in my point of view their development in S1 wasn't about romance but about trust and partnership. And while Kallen's new development does revolve around trust, there is a rather obvious romantic undertone which, questionably, isn't present in C.C.'s. There's also all that secrecy she has about everything, especially Geass, that really detracts from my liking of her as a pairing ending. It feels like she has her own agenda, which I think we can all agree she does to some degree.

[Daito-kun]

Well, the most romantic right now is Kaguya... But Zero treats her like... I dont really know what example should fit in here))) As ar as I see, in R2 Lulu said compliments to Kallen("be proud of yourself.") to rolo (well, doesnt really count) and to Diethart (I loled on his reaction)
But it's also truth, that something flyes in the air between Kallen and Lelouch since ep 7, and it'll need to be resolwed sooner or later... Well, I still will dream about KallenXLuluXC.C.))) jh, i don't mind to add Kaguya in threre... Like she said "Three Court Ladies", he)))))

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Var

See this is where opinions vary, in my point of view their development in S1 wasn't about romance but about trust and partnership. And while Kallen's new development does revolve around trust, there is a rather obvious romantic undertone which, questionably, isn't present in C.C.'s. There's also all that secrecy she has about everything, especially Geass, that really detracts from my liking of her as a pairing ending. It feels like she has her own agenda, which I think we can all agree she does to some degree.

I almost agree with you.

But there are romantic undertones for C.C in S1.
I like refer you to ep 12 (i think it was 12), when Lulu was dating Shirley and ep 19 (the island ep) on the sub when C.C suddenly realise that Lulu and Kallen are on the island to get alone.
C.C does get a tad jealous when Lelouch gets to close to other girls.
Not to mention she recent tsundere behavior, at the end of S2 ep 7.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Salt

I almost agree with you.

But there are romantic undertones for C.C in S1.
I like refer you to ep 12 (i think it was 12), when Lulu was dating Shirley and ep 19 (the island ep) on the sub when C.C suddenly realise that Lulu and Kallen are on the island to get alone.
C.C does get a tad jealous when Lelouch gets to close to other girls.
Not to mention she recent tsundere behavior, at the end of S2 ep 7.

Perhaps, though jealousy doesn't always amount to anything conclusive. We also don't know if she is actually jealous or if we're simply led to believe that because in everyone of those scenes we're cut off from her abruptly and we also don't know what the other is saying or how they are saying it. They could very well be taunting her. This is my problem with her, its all just hypotheticals. Where as Kallen's has, all be it recently, had actual obvious development.

One scene for less than a second doesn't really count as tsundere in my book. Kallen is tsundere, C.C. not so much.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Salt

I almost agree with you.

But there are romantic undertones for C.C in S1.
I like refer you to ep 12 (i think it was 12), when Lulu was dating Shirley and ep 19 (the island ep) on the sub when C.C suddenly realise that Lulu and Kallen are on the island to get alone.
C.C does get a tad jealous when Lelouch gets to close to other girls.
Not to mention she recent tsundere behavior, at the end of S2 ep 7.

Actually in episode 19 C.C. said that paying attention to Kallen in particular being on the island was a "dangerous habit" and accused whoever she was talking to (presumably V.V.) of "pretending to be an observer".

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Var

Perhaps, though jealousy doesn't always amount to anything conclusive. We also don't know if she is actually jealous or if we're simply led to believe that because in everyone of those scenes we're cut off from her abruptly and we also don't know what the other is saying or how they are saying it. They could very well be taunting her.

"taunting" ? They don't even know she is watching. Heck Shirley doesn't even know C.C exist. Not to mention what is there to taunt about ?
On the sub C.C was alone in that scene.

This is the bias I have been talking about, when a point suit your agenda you accept it without much thought, when it doesn't you over analysis it until you find an interpretation you are comfortable with.

No matter how you view it, these are signs.
Although you can force a different interpretation if you are creative.

Occam's Razor.

I say, that C.C is still in.

This is my problem with her, its all just hypotheticals. Where as Kallen's has, all be it recently, had actual obvious development.

Of course, the director has to keep us guessing. He can't nail anything down yet.

One scene for less than a second doesn't really count as tsundere in my book. Kallen is tsundere, C.C. not so much.

She is more of an Ice queen. But that was typical tsundere behavior.