World Of Warcraft Discussion Thread

[Komori]

Most people won't accept Death Knight tanks for a while, I think. My guild only has 1 DK tank and he does just fine. Death Grip is a great ability for tanking and it's extremely useful in some fights. If you really want to tank as a DK, your best bet would probably be waiting until 80.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

I've heard DeathKnight tanks weren't overly bad. I just hit 80 and was mostly questing so haven't personally partied with one yet. Though as a player with an alt tank I will say that STAM isn't everything to be a tank. Yea, you can take the hits but DEF should be a priority first then work on the other stats. From what I heard STR is also a large factor with how tanking has changed since the last big patch. As a healer, HP is good for a tank but if they don't have DEF and other stats (dodge, parry, etc) to reduce damage and crushing blows it makes it a bit more difficult to heal and wastes mana.

Focusing on Def is a bit difficult while leveling, the constant gear-switches make it a near-futile effort to get some good Def on the gear that doesn't come with it naturally, so the only thing I can focus on is stamina (which makes for nice leveling as well. Pure strength gear isn't all what it's cracked up to be when you have six mobs pounding on your health). I'll probably focus on leveling first, as Komori suggested.

When speccing, I always adhere to the 5/5/5 rule anyway, regardless of whether I spec DPS or tank.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

There aren't many green +def tanking pieces while leveling, but there are a couple and they are all quest rewards. Best bet are blue quest items and rep gear when you are 78+.

Wyrmrest has Cloak, BP and Boots.

Icecrown has a quest for a helmet.

Occulus has quest for wrists and a drop for a belt

Argent Crusade has head enchant and some legs

Blacksmithing has a couple crafted pieces like a belt, pants and so on.

Shoulders you can get from CoT, or the AH, but they drop in CoT.

There is a GODLY trinket for defense from Halls of Lightning, it adds oodles of defense which goes a very long way for DK tanks.

But anyway, overall you need 540 defense to tank raids, and heroics need 530 or 535. That will make you crit immune to the mob's located within the instances. Try and keep your dodge and parry pretty close to even too, no need to blow one out over the other. With the blue gear you should be able to get about 20K hp, 16% dodge/parry and about 20K armor. That is plenty good over-kill for normal instances and quite sufficient for heroics as long as you are immune to crit (which is kinda hard to reach, I'm just hovering around 540-545.

And if you can get decent stats anyone who say's DK's cannot tank is an idiotic smack-tard, same goes for those that say 'FRST IZ ONLY GUD TANK TREE @_@'.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

@Kyero Fox: Well, I pity you. There are females that play WoW that are very nice people. Yoriko is just a laugh to be around and plays Holy Priest so damn well, plus her tastes in anime rock. Bexy - very superior Rogue and is a funny/friendly/little raunchy person. Wintersonnet - exceptionally polite, caring single mother, really respect her. Could say a lot more but you get the idea.

As for the males:

Humans - Sleazy, crappy jokes, hate their voices.
Night Elves - Even sleazier, even cruder jokes, stupid dance, they hang out in the Emerald Dream for a thousand years and leave Night Elf Females alone...bastards!
Draenei - Too chunky/butch. I don't like their voices either. Velen is a soft ponce.
Gnomes - Perverted, sly, stingy, suicidal maniacs. Their haircuts these days are ridiculous.
Dwarves - Fat and drunk. And they look better than the females. Oh wait...there are no Female Dwarves. :P

Blood Elves - The very definition of fag. Every sound they make sounds like gay sex.
Tauren - Fat, always angry and sound like they're being raped from behind when they die.
Orc - Always angry, machismo to the max...bleh.
Troll - Over-sexed freaks, too much of an overload of the Jamaican style-parody.
Undead - The teabagging, the whole bondage thing, the laughs...ick.

I'm on Rexxar, there are very little females and even fewer nice ones. I hate my server with Passion and want to change.

also heres my two cents about the female races

Blood elf - WHores
Draenie - ....... Sexaholic (the Viberator joke says it all)
Human - Stupid ass dance and jokes just as bad as the males
Dwarf - Nothin
Troll - HORRIBLE LAUGH! and same as the males
Undead - ummm actually their my 2nd favorite, got nothin agenst them really
Night Elf's - WHores
Orc - Wow....
Gnomes - cute ^_^ but still rather annoyin seeing them in plate
Tauren - .. nope nothing agenst them either

oh and on a side note, the Night elf's had no problem with the gender Seperation. the men went into the Emerald Dream because the men are better at the Nature stuff ( I dont know but my friend read the all the books and he says lots of stuff)

But I agree on every male u said except Blood Elfs, their only Fruity and Power Hungry, their so called "Gay" jokes are just to make fun of the ugly ass horde races.

and I don't know .. but what you said about the males just seems either sexist or you don't like their jokes

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Metro =/= Gay.

The idea of being metro may scare the average lumberjack, but it doesn't necessarily mean someone is flaming.

I have to say female Draenei are my favorite though they have awesome animations and an interesting body design, followed by Belfs (yeah yeah I know, but don't stand a belf next to the rest of the horde and they look OK), followed by human. Gnomes are comical. The rest can go blow goats. Especially Nelfs, god I hate them with an unholy passion I wish I could set my ghoul on them to rip em apart.

[RWBladewing]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

. Especially Nelfs, god I hate them with an unholy passion I wish I could set my ghoul on them to rip em apart.

Well, guess I'm lucky I changed my main then.

I absolutely hate female BEs - I had a lv 46 rogue with some of the most expensive gear you could buy at that level, deleted it and rerolled male undead. Pretty much everything bugs me about them, their ridiculous combat noises, their triangular heads, their perpetually pissed-off expressions, and their little toothpick weapons. Just unfortunate it took me till lv 46 to realize that.

I also hate:

Male NE - disgusting monkey-men with a really annoying dance and one of the funniest death sounds ever

Male Gnome - disgusting little men with a really annoying dance and the other funniest death sound ever

Female Troll - something about their run animation just really annoys me

Female UD - their voice, and the fact that every one I have ever grouped with has been terrible

[Last Sinner]

@Keroko: The one thing I advise you at 80 is to be selective on what heroics you do for a while. You just won't be able to do all of them straight away. I'd rate them on the following difficulty (descending order)(although I'd be interested to see how Komori and Clogs list the heroics):

The Oculus
Azjol-Nerub
Anh'kahet - The Old Kingdom
Halls of Lightning
The Violet Hold
Utgarde Pinnacle
Halls of Stone
Gundrak
Drak'Tharon Keep
Culling of Stratholme
The Nexus
Utgarde Keep

I'd say anything from Utgarde Pinnacle onwards would be within your reach.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

And if you can get decent stats anyone who say's DK's cannot tank is an idiotic smack-tard, same goes for those that say 'FRST IZ ONLY GUD TANK TREE @_@'.

Anyone who says that obviously never read the talent trees. The only thing I see as mandatory for a DK tank is the 5/5/5 rule, since we lack the block that comes with shields. Yes, frost has additional talents that are very useful for tanking, and help reduce our in between cooldown spike-sensitivity, but then, so does Unholy. Especially against casters Unholy DK's fit like a glove for tanking.

The only tree I'm a tad doubtful on is Blood. Sure it has one or two talents, like Will of the Necropolis, and Spell Deflection, and the self healing will reduce the stress on the healer, but overall I can see Blood being a less desirable tanking spec for the higher rate instances. For low level ones, its a perfect tree. Heck, during release many DK's were making Outlands instance runs while in 5-man blood-specced DK parties.

The problem is the attitude of others though. Whether I know how to play my class or not matters little if people have a bias against Death Knights (cause, admittedly, there are a lot of idiots playing Death Knights)

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

@Keroko: The one thing I advise you at 80 is to be selective on what heroics you do for a while. You just won't be able to do all of them straight away. I'd rate them on the following difficulty (descending order)(although I'd be interested to see how Komori and Clogs list the heroics):

Noted. I probably will take it easy anyway. I'm no raider, never have been, so I will probably do the easier normal instances first before jumping head-on into the tougher heroic ones.

[Komori]

@Last Sinner: I can't really list the difficulty of heroics because I hardly ever pug and gear/skill has been a non issue mostly. What I can say is though, Ahn'kahet mobs hit like a truck for badly geared tanks. I've tried it twice with undergeared groups and it is a painful experience. Even just the tank being a pug, it's painful.

Here's my list with only the instances I've done and/or I can remember. Take it with a grain of salt.
Anh'kahet - The Old Kingdom
Utgarde Pinnacle
Azjol-Nerub <- Healer dependant. If you have a good healer than I'd probably put it under The Violet Hold.
Halls of Lightning
The Violet Hold
Gundrak
The Nexus
Utgarde Keep

[krisslanza]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Having promised my sister she could play, I am sort of stuck not being able to play WoW today, so I was playing around with the character creator.

The result has me fully withdrawing any and all objection of female draenei not making good Death Knights. Especially if you pick a dark skin color, those girls look just godly. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm a slow leveler as it is, and my Death Knight is 71 now, I'd reroll.

Also, how do you guys manage to be accepted as tanks when playing your Death Knights? I'm usually scoffed at, if not outright ignored, when I try to apply for a tanking spot in parties, even though I pick every piece of stamina gear I can get my hands on and focus on tanking abilities when speccing. It came to the point where I simply went 'screw it' and respecced a DPS spec to continue questing.

A DK tank needs high STR due to Forceful Deflection. DKs get 25% of their STR to their Parry Rating or something.

And yes Draenei females are probably the best looking females in the game hands down I think. I have a female Night Elf Death Knight since I already had a female Draenei Paladin so... Why would I have two plate wearers of the same race eh?

Waiting for account-wide Death Knight access then I think I should find a way for all us Outercadias who play WoW to pick a server and roll on it. Then I can be a sexah female Draenei Death Knight.

[Last Sinner]

@Komori: I'd say it's healer AND tank depedent. With the untauntable nature of Skirmishers, they can snap a dps/healer in 1 hit if they're not AoE tanked properly. I've only been in a successful Azjol-Nerub group once. The rest failed to kill the packs chaining to the 1st boss. -_- And I'm talking about geared T6 groups.

I'm a little confused as to why you put Utgarde Pinnacle so high. I found one of the few instances undergeared players could do with ease.

[Komori]

I've had bad experiences with pugs lately. Maybe it's just me.

Our Malygos kill video is up now. Includes some drama that's unrelated to off server people.
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Havoc_vs_Malygos/
Watch how I own the vortex hard with teleport.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Hmm for me... Well I have never done the Occulus but I have heard that it is a lesson in pain and easily the hardest of the Heroics. I've never done Drak'theron on Heroic either, not because we're avoiding it, just never gone there. Same with Halls of Stone.

I too run with guild groups and good friends. I don't subject myself too pugging if I can avoid it, especially not a Heroic.

for the 3 I haven't done I'd probably expect them to be like:
The Oculus
Halls of Stone
Drak'Tharon Keep

For the rest:
Anh'kahet - The Old Kingdom (last boss only, he is annoying because some healers can be annoying to handle)
Utgarde Pinnacle - True I've only been here like, twice so I might be over rating this, but only the last boss is really 'hard'
Azjol-Nerub - First packs can be a little tricky to the unprepared, Skirmishers aren't too bad, just dont let them near your back, Anub'arak can be annoying but pretty easy if things go well.
Gundrak - dead. set. easy. other then the snake boss who is a bit of a zerg.
Culling of Stratholme - easy, cept for the second boss that likes to one shot cloth.
Halls of Lightning - also easy to tank, even loken, I can eat all his lightning nova's and reduce the damage they do by a boat load.
The Violet Hold - Zzzzzzzzzz a boss? Im awake!
The Nexus - Nice and simple, nothing really special here
Utgarde Keep - same as nexus, nothing special, just fun.

[Clarste]

I've done all the heroics but Azjol-Nerub, but maybe since I'm dps my opinion doesn't count? I'm just gonna give my opinion on the interesting places, not in any particular order.

Gundrak: Really easy, except the last boss who will randomly one-shot people. I hear this is a bug (when he charges someone for impale he often hits them with his enraged normal attack at the same time, making their death by impale almost certain), but it certainly makes him harder. Especially since he always targets the healer in my experience.

Anh'Kahet: This is a pretty fun place, although everything but the first and heroic-only bosses seem kinda like gear checks. The last boss is one of the funnest bosses ever. It really made me feel like I had to use all my abilities (interrupts, grounding, dispels, heals, etc). I can imagine it being horrible with a druid healer though, since they'd shift out of Hex.

Occulus: This place is just weird. The bosses are pretty easy once you know their gimmicks, except the last boss who is more of a puzzle than anything else, since you're not even using your character. I can see how the early pulls might be hard because of all the caster non-elites that you can't really aoe, but I just target them first to kinda sorta offtank and to simply kill them fast. Didn't seem particularly hard, just gimmicky.

Culling of Strathholme. Really, really easy. The only times we've died is when we're rushing for the event and pulling the healer's ready, which is perfectly understandable.

Utgarde Pinnacle: The last boss is hard? He's the kinda guy you beat without having any idea what's going on, which to me says easy. The wyrm rider guy is harder, but only because of the gauntlet. The other bosses are trivial.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I say 'hard' because I hadn't seen him before and the strat of 'the boats do stuff' left lots to the imagination. Also only got to have 2 shots at him before instance reset @_@. Haven't had a chance to go back since then. So its probably a lot easier then I thought.

But everything is easy to DPS, its really the healers/tanks that make/break it!

[krisslanza]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

I say 'hard' because I hadn't seen him before and the strat of 'the boats do stuff' left lots to the imagination. Also only got to have 2 shots at him before instance reset @_@. Haven't had a chance to go back since then. So its probably a lot easier then I thought.

But everything is easy to DPS, its really the healers/tanks that make/break it!

DPSers just gotta make sure they don't out threat the tank and get smacked.

[Xacual]

I've always found that a good tank and healer make heroics flow well but its the speed of the dps that make or break it. It's like a 30 minute slave pens heroic versus an hour one. Neither of them had wipes just one had slow dps and the other had good dps. I don't know, I play all three roles in groups so I'm not inclined to put all the weight on any specific job unless there is something really specific that group has to do.

I'm terrible at explaining but good dps to me is as valuable as a good healer or tank, you can really notice its absence.

[Narzia]

Even though i've done Oculus normal and heroic several times now, i'm still stuck at the second boss there. In heroic, i die all the time. ME! The the demon kiter! The one who mastered the heigan dance after the second try ever! It's ridiculous!

I've read the tactics, but still seem to miss something. I stand between the beams, i run away from the big ones. Still, i get hit everytime. It seems the beams have a cone-like radius. But somehow i can't get out in time. -_-

And i've been hunting for Loque'Nahak, the spirit beast, for quite some time now. Several days, from like 6am to 10am. Nothing.. it's once again a dumb luck-based thing that i wish they'd stop doing.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

I say 'hard' because I hadn't seen him before and the strat of 'the boats do stuff' left lots to the imagination. Also only got to have 2 shots at him before instance reset @_@. Haven't had a chance to go back since then. So its probably a lot easier then I thought.

But everything is easy to DPS, its really the healers/tanks that make/break it!

I'm a shaman, so I'm also the offhealer/interrupter/hexer/poison or disease cleanser.

Anyway, I tend to judge difficulty by how close to death the tank gets or the mana of the healer. Obviously I'll step in to help if necessary.

In the end, I think all roles are important, except a good healer can make up for a bad tank and vice versa. If you have horrible dps... well you're healer's gonna go oom eventually and overall it'd be an unpleasant run.

Originally Posted by Narzia

Even though i've done Oculus normal and heroic several times now, i'm still stuck at the second boss there. In heroic, i die all the time. ME! The the demon kiter! The one who mastered the heigan dance after the second try ever! It's ridiculous!

I've read the tactics, but still seem to miss something. I stand between the beams, i run away from the big ones. Still, i get hit everytime. It seems the beams have a cone-like radius. But somehow i can't get out in time. -_-

Keep running counterclockwise. You can stop to cast, but not very long. It may be possible to stand between the beams, but I wouldn't bother, just get completely out of the area. It only hits about a third of the field at a time. And of course continuously moving helps to dodge the big beams.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

But I agree on every male u said except Blood Elfs, their only Fruity and Power Hungry, their so called "Gay" jokes are just to make fun of the ugly ass horde races.

It really depends on how you make them look. Old-face Blood Elves are generally awesome.