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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 107 rating | |||
Perfect 10 |
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21 | 14.89% |
9 out of 10 : Excellent |
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14 | 9.93% |
8 out of 10 : Very Good |
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16 | 11.35% |
7 out of 10 : Good |
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20 | 14.18% |
6 out of 10 : Average |
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8 | 5.67% |
5 out of 10 : Below Average |
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3 | 2.13% |
4 out of 10 : Poor |
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3 | 2.13% |
3 out of 10 : Bad |
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2 | 1.42% |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad |
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1 | 0.71% |
1 out of 10 : Painful |
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53 | 37.59% |
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll |
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Link #961 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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....and like Gooral said,she should have attacked during the night......or maybe she feared that if she losed time A&B could return.......
Out of topic:Sigh,99% of the times i see a post that i like and i want to give rep.... i have to spread rep! Dammit!Not again! |
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Link #962 | ||||
The Burned Man walks!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Asspain
Age: 33
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And not, being intelligent or an experienced warrior doesn't make you inmune to doubt or hesitation. Quite a number of battles and even wars in history have been won or lost just because one general or one king wasn't able to take one right decision in time. Look at Hannibal, probably one of the most brilliant and cunning military minds ever witnessed by this planet. He lost a war because he just didn't crush Rome when he could, mostly because he didn't want to destroy Rome from the very beginning (he just wanted to restablish a more equitative balance of power in the Western Mediterranean, restoring Carthage to its former glory). The problem was, the only way to fully restore Carthage's power was wiping out Rome, because the Romans would never accept any peace treaty that made their most feared and hated enemy regaining power and imposing them any condition. Hannibal hesitated, we know how it ended. Miria's problem is comparable: she wanted to destroy the Org, but when faced with the need of killing the Org's soldiers, she hesitated... and got killed. Not everyone can be Michael Corleone. So Yagi's message is pretty clear (and obvious): you hesitate in war, your chances of winning evaporate. I still think that the fact that Miria died has angered fans so much that they sistematically and blindly assume her plan and actions were all completely stupid, dumb and childish, now suddenly raging and complaining about everything Yagi has done with her. Miria just hesitated for a moment, in fact she quickly decided to get truly serious with the twins... but that moment of doubt and the resultant release of yoki (to evade the twins' attack) allowed Raftela to put her technique into work. And then Miria was pretty much fucked. |
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Link #963 | |
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
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She wasn't thinking "I have to go, but I'll consider all the possibilities and wait till the right opportunity", she was thinking "I'm going, and I'm going right NOW, and nobody is going to stop me". If she were to going to consider all the possibilities.....shoot, she never would have even left at all. Her actions were purely emotional and instinctual; sure, their was some logic in what she did, like waiting for A&B to leave, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. As for night time...for all we know, the chapter could have taken place at night; the bad thing about black and white stories like this, is that it forever feels like it's always the middle of the afternoon. The trip from Rabona to Staff could have taken days, not the instantaneous feeling we get from reading. Heh, and thanks for the kind thoughts (wanting to rep me ![]() ![]()
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Link #964 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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She didn't die because she hesitated. She died because #10 had a hax ability that directly counter a solo claymore who is unaware that something like #10's ability existed. Even if she didn't hesitate and killed every claymore and the twins, something else could have forced her to use youki, may be AFs or may be something we have not yet seen. The fact that she is alone and the fact the moment she releases any youki = she is doomed, is a scenario that was constructed specifically to kill her off to produce shock value.
After biding her time for so long within the org and having trained with ghosts for seven years together with all their goal being revenge on the org and save the other claymores, it is only a plot driven necessity that made her choose to go after the Org solo. The Miria from Pieta would have never made this choice. The Miria from after slasher arc wouldn't have made this choice. Only the Miria from right after Hilda's death might have made that choice. Emotional as she is, when she is acting in the capacity of a leader, she remains cool headed and would have choose a course of action that will have the highest rate of succeeding combined with the lowest danger to her fellow claymores. Miria, following her character's progression as we have seen should have went to help Clare and co with Galatea's help, gather all the ghost together, persuade and enlist other claymores with the truth and only strike the Org when they have strength in numbers and better intel from her inside contact (which has still not been revealed). I found it especially ironic that she died happy seeing Hilda's illusion being alive and yet didn't choose to save Clare and others. All the ghosts should have meant as much to her as Hilda and given her last moments, the choice to go solo against Org for revenge rather then saving her friends runs contrary to what is shown.
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Link #965 |
Ravages of time-Zhang Fei
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Austria
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Korinov
Yes your are right, with everything you said, m`kay? I canīt argue with someone who has Dio Brando as his avatar. Just reminds of some good old Jojoīs Adventure and how a perfect manga/anime looks like...especially Dio as the villain ![]() Letīs get on now, shall we? So again, whatīs next? Miria is down, Claire is down, most of the Awakened Beings are down... Are we back to Deneve and Helen? Or is there really more to Miriaīs plan than we first thought thanks to that cliffhanger ending? Maybe Priscilla? Raki? Whatīs next? What will we see? Who will die next? Though one thing: So Yagi's message is pretty clear (and obvious): you hesitate in war, your chances of winning evaporate. Sima Yi once said: There are five possible operations in war: If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender...die! Miria only planned untill point one. She didnīt plan in the factor that their might be a long battle where sheīll be cornered. And as Sima Yi said, if you canīt defend flee. Thatīs called a plan R, for run away. So itīs not only you hesitate in war, your cances of winning evaporate. Itīs also never underestimate your enemy. Never overestimate yourself. Be prepaired for the impossible. Hide your weakness as your strength and use your strength to strike the enemies weakness. There are many more mistakes that Miria made and that Yagi probably doesnīt know of (since he made up that useless battle plan) and what you said is a nice message, but probably not what he meant. Seeing the scene were she said sheīd never stain the pillars she founded her hatred to destroy the Org on, namely to prevent victims like the Twins to be created again, it just leaves me with the impression, that she chose to die rather than betray her own oath. She doesnīt want to "free" Claymores by killing Claymores. Thatīs why her emotional side got her: The end, justifies the means just wasnīt the right thing to do for her. Never stray from the path of your own justice, even if it means to die for it. Follow your dream untill the end. Get rich or die tryin. Thatīs the message I got out of those final moments. Oh and SagaraSouske, you really hit the nail with your list of what would be Miriaīs course of action, if that were still the Miria we know and learned to love. So again, this is not the Mirira Yagi developed over those years.
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Link #966 | |
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
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It's funky, because, in a way, after the Extra Chapter, I almost felt like she put Hilda behind her; she certainly was happy, but content and happy within herself and her friends, not because she found Hilda's sword and thought back to her; she was merely happy to have seen something from her past, think back, and feel happy that, although Hilda was gone, it was okay because she was with her new friends and was confident about the future. At the same time, if their was ever one person that would have the most affect on her in the form of an illusion, it would be Hilda....so while, in a way, Miria HAD put Hilda behind her and moved forward with her life, she was obviously the one that would get to Miria the most. It's like seeing your dead parents again after 10 years; in that time span, you have (hopefully) grown to accept reality, what has happened, and are moving on with your life with, again hopefully, confidence and happiness...regardless, if you saw them again, you would be just as shocked, speechless and as happy as Miria was.
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Link #967 | ||
The Burned Man walks!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Asspain
Age: 33
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Link #968 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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(But indeed it was your post that i wanted to rep but since we often agree it seems it's not possible atm) |
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Link #969 |
Protecting the Throne
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 32
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Had Miria killed one of the twins while the other was down, she might not have died.
Edit: I'm also thinking maybe Raftela has been around for quite a while. Maybe even back to the time of Rafaela and Teresa training.
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Link #970 | ||||||||
The Burned Man walks!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Asspain
Age: 33
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![]() Spoiler for JoJo's plot & deaths:
And yet, Stardust Crusaders' finale is SO genuinely AWESOME. Quote:
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Link #971 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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@Sagara:
Well,going to "save" her friends at that moment would have been REALLY useless,a lot more useless than attacking the org......and it seems you don't understand a simple fact:Miria attack happens BEFORE her friends are in deep sh*t,not after,so there was absolutely no real reason to go help the others........ ......but even if that wasn't the case (and it is) in a scenario with A&B,Riful,AF,the destroyer with her minions and a bit later even Priscilla,there is nothing that Miria can do,she is strong,but those powers are on a completely other level. Between the ghosts only Claire has the potential to fight at that level thanx to her mysterious powers,no one else. I absolutely don't agree that Miria acted out of char,in previous page (pag.48) i explain why,if you are interested take my reply from there. |
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Link #974 | |
Clare's #1 fan
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
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If this is true then Miria had noting to fear from the Org ( logical conclusion). We are only complaining because the Org had an Ace up their sleeve (something no one new about, not even the once complaining). Yagi must have planed it this way, or he just made it up. I think he planed it that way. We always new there was a #10 but we new noting about her until now. Remember, the Org sent all the useless Claymores to Peita and kept the brainwash ones.
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Link #975 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Kinda weird...Miria did act out of character from not being willing to kill the twins...I mean last chapter she threatened Galatea and anyone that she would kill anyone standing in her way...but here...she knew just how strong the twins were...yet...she still tried to go for the immobilization rather than the kill...seems a bit odd..but whatever...it was expected for her to die going up against the org by herself anyways...imo...was a fitting a death...wouldn't have made sense otherwise if she single handedly took down the org without the org having a secret weapon like the #10...
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Link #976 |
Ravages of time-Zhang Fei
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Austria
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You really donīt make it easy for me, do you Korinov?
![]() Is a discussion with me really so much fun? ![]() Spoiler for About the message of Yagi:
Spoiler for Cliffhanger matter:
Spoiler for About Jojo:
Spoiler for The numerous Mistakes:
Spoiler for Warfare and doing nothing:
Spoiler for MalakTawus:
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Last edited by matsunaga_hisahide; 2010-09-04 at 20:30. |
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Link #977 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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Sometimes numbers can lead to big mistakes.
Imagine if the same thing that Miria did now, someone else did before when Miria was still a claymore: Rebel:"Yeah,I'm definitely stronger than n.3 Galatea and since A&B are dealing with Riful there is no one else that can stop me now!!!!!I'll have my revenge!!!" ***Suddenly Raphaela comes out of nowhere*** Rebel:"Who cares,she's just n.5! I can beat her even in my sleep!" TA-DA-DA-DAAAN!!!!! ...............rebel dead.............. |
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Link #978 |
Former #9
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Miria chose taking a good opportunity but did not plan an orginised attack. After analysing the fight, noticed the Org was running out of hands when I just saw that TRUMP CARD we had been talking this long. Well, Miria could have finished this if she wasn't so weak-minded having mercy on not killing the shrimp twins or the others as Audrey or Rachel... I don't understand why some of you are just overstimating Raftela just because she can create hallucinations. So if that was the trump card, then the MiBs are not having any defense against cold-minded rebels on Miria's level after all? That's stupid... Miria's death was already set by Yagi even though she was capable of finishing with all this. Somehow, i was wondering if the trump card has the ability even to manipulate emotions by its yoki syncronization. Think about it. Miria had no reason distracted by a hallucination taken form of Hilda knowing she was in the middle of fight to reach the goal she planned.
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Link #979 | |
Ha ha ha ha ha...
![]() Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right behind you.
Age: 35
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Link #980 |
♥ Ophy~chan ♥
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In a 2D paradise
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OK after giving it some thought, now that I think back, it makes perfect sense for the existence of no.10 solely to defend the org against rebels.
1. They are at war. In wars there are rebellions from time to time. 2. If there are yoki manipulators who can make a body move involuntarily (aka bodyfrak?) why not the mind to think involuntarily? Obviously we all knew Miria to be intuitive and tactician but if someone just forced you to feel emotional and hallucinate, it cannot be helped right? Now here I think theres another way to think. For example lets say it doesnt fully control a mind but as Rubel said mess up emotions. Now we know for a fact that Claymores can control their hormones, body temp etc and Helen getting drunk was a perfect example. I think all no.10 did was drive Miria senses overdrive ie let her human side of things take over. If Gala can tweak the body by messing up with yoki manipulation the next step could be this. 3. Why is no.10 in the org and never goes out? Well it makes sense to think that in fact she has a unique skill but is not nearly as strong as Raph or Galatae to hunt deserters who are much more stronger and has been hiding for years. And who would suspect someone who never leaves the org to be that special? so I think wtf drop on our heads makes sense (also on Miria's head). 4. The only way no.10 ability can be used is when yoki aura is leaking again, so someone who suppresses it and hides like Irene did for a while or even Teresa did (before she killed a yoma to save a town) cannot be hunted unless they have exceptional tracking or sensing skills. So clearly Yagi wanted us to realize this on our own that their is logic to her introduction and to her skill. And obviously points out that she is not that strong to be sent out to hunt uber deserters like Irene or Teresa. I mean the org sent Gala to hunt Clare also indicates that she is not a good sensor at all. 5. Now why did Miria release her yoki aura? simple she underestimated the capabilities of the org. She didn't suspect a second A&B program to be running parallel (why? Coz ven Miria left to attack A&B just started to moveout and is not dead and she just met no.3 wetting herself, no.4 is a mental nutcase and a muscle head no.5), ie she underestimated. In short she had no choice and got overwhelmed. And why not? She was on par with Clare's WC with mirages so if something is faster needs more speed you would naturally release more power. Miria has always been a great leader and plan ahead. She took the perfect chance to attack the org. Perhaps she could have taken Taby (as Gala willingly did not offer to help, Miata and Clarice just defected so you can never know clearly where their allegiance lies). But then she has to worry over Taby's battle potential and getting injured (coz thats how caring our Miria is). And maybe explaining things to her wouldn't help might be what Miria thought, so she did what she did (Taby loves Miria too much ![]() SO as some of you have been saying, we can now start thinking of what this would implicate for the story. I think this is Yagi's way of saying that Clare should take up the leader role. Why not? She just got more than 2 decades of experience and knowledge from one of the longest lived Claymores. She greatly cares for her allies and friends... Though I know we are all sad from Miria's sudden exit, lets start thinking of whats next (instead of scorning Yagi for poor script and illogical explanations). |
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claymore, manga |
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