Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Mairsile]

I can't help but notice the physical similarity in Elaine Matsumoto (post-transformation) and the hideauz Chamber killed.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that act by Chamber was the first I recall where he acted without authorization from Ledo or another human.

But I can't help but think of the queerats from Shinsekai Yori after viewing this episode.

[Funkatron]

Other wandering tribes could be deserters who felt like they didn't want to take part in the war.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Other wandering tribes could be deserters who felt like they didn't want to take part in the war.

Are we sure that they can be considered "deserters"?
In the end the original group decided to use the wormhole to go far away from Earth and leave everything behind. That means that they were basically fleeing the conflict entirely.

Since the beginning the Evolvers planned to travel in space using a conventional and slower space voyage, simply destroying the wormhole wouldn't have stopped their ambitions. and even less would have killed them considering their adaptability.


The fact that what we have now is called Gallactic Alliance, suggests that the emigrant humans first split among various factions and then they united (or were forced to unite) by those that in the end decided that there was no choice but to exterminate the Hideauze.

In this context the wanderers are probably those who remained true to the spirit of their ancestors that decided that fleeing as far as possible from the Evolvers was the best solution.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Hideauze can't make wormholes but the Galactic Alliance can. Wherever the Alliance goes they go. Hence it is a parasitic existence for the Hideauze.

The Galactic Alliance on the other hand has dedicated their society so much in defending themselves and destroying the Hideuaze if there are no enemies no longer they do not know what to do.

I think "parasitic" is unjustified. The Hideauze seem to live by converting stellar energy for biological use. They have no need of the Alliance for that. In fact, from what we have been told, it appears more likely (but not certain) that the Alliance chases after the Hideauze, rather than the other way around -- even if it is true that the Hideauze (or at least the Evolved) hitchhiked on the first wormhole ride from Earth. The question of how Ledo/Chamber ended up back on Earth is still unexplained. Pure chance seems unlikely. Did some remnant of the Earth's wormhole open for them?

I think the authors are portraying the Evolved as more positive and well-intentioned than the Union. They speak of making it possible for everyone to be happy. We are shown a family giving itself to the effort by becoming Evolved. The Union is portrayed as all negative, with no real solution but the escape of a few, and as having fired the first shot in the long war. That doesn't mean Hideauze society is any better than Alliance society: good intentions are not enough. But in any case, that seems to be what the writers are pushing.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

...Well damn, at least make them cute like Ika-musume...!

I wonder if Kaoru Chujo realized that Elaine Matsumoto has not mouth. Just what kind of improvement he sees in a transhumanism that completely prevents an individual to become one of the voice actors that he loves so much?....

I think they are cute. Those lovely sinuous arms. Maybe even cuter than Ika Musume, lol. As for the mouth, I didn't think of that. Maybe they make beautiful sounds by rubbing their tentacles together?

Anyway, I'm not about to rush out and and transhumanize myself. I'm kind of old-fashioned: I don't even have any tattoos. I just thought that in the context of this show, the Evolved seemed no worse and maybe better than their enemies, and much of the opposition to them in the thread was emotional rather than rational. Not that my own opinions aren't emotional. Just saying.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by LystAP

The Evolvers attacked because the Union managed to come up with the technology and was planning to leave the Evolvers behind to die with the Earth.

Didn't you watch the video? The whole point of symbionts and the merging of species was for Evolvers to live in space as space travel was slow.

They could survive the ice age as they did not need Earth as all they need is photosynthesis.

That is what the Evolvers are supposed to be selling.

Welp the Continental Alliance creates a faster way to get out of the solar system cutting travel time.

Hijacking the wormhole drive amounts to Ragequit cause the other side found a better way while still preserving their humanity.

The Evolvers are a Transhumanist Cult that got caught performing illegal human experimentation. That means unwilling test subjects and abducting people to be merged with symbionts. The Continental Union attacked them because they were a criminal organization that violates human rights.

[Tenzen12]

Actualy do we have any proof that they used any unwiling humans? At least on that video weren't any. Human cloning is also forbiden even though some people would give consent in some cases.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I think the authors are portraying the Evolved as more positive and well-intentioned than the Union. They speak of making it possible for everyone to be happy. We are shown a family giving itself to the effort by becoming Evolved. The Union is portrayed as all negative, with no real solution but the escape of a few, and as having fired the first shot in the long war. That doesn't mean Hideauze society is any better than Alliance society: good intentions are not enough. But in any case, that seems to be what the writers are pushing.

In other hand do you realy consider video created by one of fraction which portrait itself good and opposing bad to be author PoV?

It would be nice if there were way of peacfull solution. Though it doesn't seems to be possible. To be honest Hidezu might not be humans anymore nor fully sentient, but they still are descendand of humans so at least moraly they shouldn't be threated as mere dangerous animals. In other hand GA become what it did to survive. Ultimately I am leaning toward GA even if it's onlu cause they losing ones.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It wouldn't shock me to find out that not only does Avalon not exist, but perhaps there aren't any civilians in the Galactic Alliance at all anymore - maybe when a soldier's useful life is deemed over, they tell them they're going to paradise to screw and party and then do to them what they did to the children they deemed unfit. Who can verify anything at this stage?

Well, children have to come from somewhere, and selective breeding (e.g. soldiers who survive long enough) makes sense. They phrase it as a right, so you don't feel forced, and since you have nothing else to do, with only the worthy around... Avalon sounds like a baby factory for future soldiers to me. (You don't want to be homosexual in Avalon... <--- Speculation.)

Originally Posted by Tempester

Making the Hideauze be former humans was just too banal of a twist, especially after seeing a few recent anime (that I won't name) use the same twist. And this revelation doesn't actually make them any more sympathetic, given how they are depicted to be warmongers who cast away their humanity to make war with "inferior" humans.

I can understand the reasoning behind this twist and its purpose in the story. It's to make Ledo question his previously unbroken resolve to annihilate the Hideauze at all costs. I still find it weak and banal.

Pretty much my reaction.

Also the exectution was just so clumsy. Who would edit digital data like that? A selective collage of newsclips with no comments? And Chamber had to kill the only cute one we saw. After all, if it was just your avarage ugly old squid...

I see the potential, but to mine it you don't keep the main revelation a secret. This revelation doesn't make me see anything in a new light; instead I just have to deal with an additional layer of humanist issues - squid ink muddying the waters.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Actualy do we have any proof that they used any unwiling humans? At least on that video weren't any. Human cloning is also forbiden even though some people would give consent in some cases.

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Leaked recruitment materials that made the world go angry. Also consider what the Evolver scientist leader said that international laws and regulations are obsolete and they should pursue SCIENCE! freely.

Goodness that is a Mad Scientist. Evolvers has become a cult akin to CoS.

Destroying the means of humans to leave the planet by attacking orbital elevators and hijacking the wormhole gate to conquer the universe amounts to "I'll Show Them All!".

[Theo]

Boy, it sure has been a week for suffering, hasn't it?

And who are you, the proud squid said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a human of a different boat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a boat of gold or a boat of red,
a cephalopod still has guns,
And mine are long and armed, my Ledo,
as long and armed as yours.

And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Hideauze,
But now the lasers sweep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the lasers SENMETSU o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I think they are cute. Those lovely sinuous arms. Maybe even cuter than Ika Musume, lol. As for the mouth, I didn't think of that. Maybe they make beautiful sounds by rubbing their tentacles together?

Anyway, I'm not about to rush out and and transhumanize myself. I'm kind of old-fashioned: I don't even have any tattoos. I just thought that in the context of this show, the Evolved seemed no worse and maybe better than their enemies, and much of the opposition to them in the thread was emotional rather than rational. Not that my own opinions aren't emotional. Just saying.

I admit that the Elaine Matsumoto kind looks kinda cute, but at the same time it's the least functional version of the Hideauze that we have seen so far. No mouth, no hands, the tentacles aren't developed enough to be of use. That doesn't seem like the ideal form for a kid to play around.

I also don't quite understand yet if it's a different subspecies entirely or if that's how all Hideauze look when they are kids but either way the only adult and fully evolved Hideauze we see is the one in this post.

And that doesn't really look cute to me, well disregard the cute, since adult men aren't that cute either, it's more like it looks ominous, especially with all those spikes and claws, I can't help but thinking that this comes from the Lovecraft fan in Urobuchi again.

Also we have two possibilities about... the body. Either what we see is some kind of detachable shell, which would mean their sense of fashion has gone completely wrong or that is actually the body, which means the Hideauze have reverted to some kind of Precambrian crustacean.

Perhaps I'm "old styled" and that's why this "future" horrifies me.

Lovecraft in one of his short novels presented as horrifying a future where some kind of "mongoloid humans" conquered the whole world (The horror!!!). Perhaps I'm a bit xenophobic myself, but yeah I don't think I could be comfortable inside a Hideauze society.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

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Leaked recruitment materials that made the world go angry. Also consider what the Evolver scientist leader said that international laws and regulations are obsolete and they should pursue SCIENCE! freely.

Goodness that is a Mad Scientist. Evolvers has become a cult akin to CoS.

Destroying the means of humans to leave the planet by attacking orbital elevators and hijacking the wormhole gate to conquer the universe amounts to "I'll Show Them All!".

So no there is no such proof

Though these experiments indeed were terrifying and creepy (and ilegal of course)

[Casshern]

I'm surprised that people are taking the side of the Continental Union, which is an oppressive government that employs unprovoked large-scale violence against a scientific organization that's trying to find a way for humanity to survive.

The CU didn't even get approval for their attack from the UN, which makes it pretty much as illegal as the experiments they wanted to shut down. It's almost like they felt threatened by the possibility that alot of humans might survive who aren't in the elite few that get to board the ark through the wormhole.

Seriously, there aren't any good guys here, but so far the Continental Union doesn't seem to have been the lesser of two evils, at least not before the exodus from Earth.

As for who discarded humanity, I'm going to make the distinction between the Evolvers (squid currently on earth) and Gargantians against the Hideauze (squid in space) and Galactic Alliance. Both the Hideauze and Galactic Alliance sacrificed their humanity for their war, while the Gargantians and Evolvers who live on Earth retained their humanity.

I disagree with the idea that arms, legs and a face are what constitutes humanity.

[Piesum]

I wasn't really surprised about the revelation after we saw those hideaze larvae. But it is still an interesting twist.

I have enjoyed the series thus far. Even the 'slow episodes,' I just hope it has enough time to finish what it started now.

[greensoulreaper]

Something cool I noticed about this week's episode (9) was that the OP was slightly changed:

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[Jan-Poo]

There are no signs that would indicate that the Evolvers are still living on earth. The whalesquids are probably just the remnants of their experiments, and there are no signs that would indicate that they are intelligent creatures.

Arms legs and a face maybe don't constitute humanity, but the ability to develop a civilization and culture? I argue that it does and we have seen none from the whalesquids.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by greensoulreaper

Something cool I noticed about this week's episode (9) was that the OP was slightly changed:
[photos snipped]

I noticed that as well. However, the group shot at the end of the OP still showed Fairlock and Ridget's upswept hairdo.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Casshern

I'm surprised that people are taking the side of the Continental Union, which is an oppressive government that employs unprovoked large-scale violence against a scientific organization that's trying to find a way for humanity to survive.

Evolvers are Transhumanist Luddites and hypocrites.

They developed a means to survive space by symbiosis but they went beyond that. They got a god complex that their way is the only way.

They can survive space and feed on solar energy.

But they were not satisfied with that. They wanted to follow the Continental Union who developed the wormhole gate in order to conquer space and become the ruling species leaving the humans behind. They would steal the gate.

Greed and ambition got to them. They weren't left to die they could live in space and under the sea.

Evolvers can't stand the CU were smarter in their survival strategy invalidating what they believe in. Their way is the future.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

...The Evolvers are a Transhumanist Cult that got caught performing illegal human experimentation. That means unwilling test subjects and abducting people to be merged with symbionts. The Continental Union attacked them because they were a criminal organization that violates human rights.

Where did all this come from? You're at liberty to call them a cult if you want, and they did apparently violate some law, but there is no evidence in the anime that they abducted people or violated human rights. I feel like I'm in the midst of an anti-transhumanist cult.

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't call what they did to Elaine a human right violation, parental consent or not.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm not so sure I wouldn't call what they did to Elaine a human right violation, parental consent or not.

A child's consent in mutating her is highly dubious. `