(L) Kara No Kyokai

[jonli]

Originally Posted by kaizer63

Spoiler for answers:

1) You hit that one right on. Her family is a family of psychics in the Demon Hunter's Association. Members will usually have some form of Mystic eye and have two personalities--one male and one female. At the end of the second movie Shiki lost her male personality and her mystic eyes evolved into the MEoDP due to her closeness to death.
I haven't read the novels so I don't know the answer to the last question, but I'd assume she wasn't.

2) It might be better to think of the MEoDP as seeing not the "death" of things but the "end" of things. In that way, everything will have some sort of fault and can be destroyed, including concepts like magic and barriers and will thus have lines that can be cut.

3) He wants to take her body. Since she has the MEoDP she has a connection to the Origin/Akashic record. Reaching that is the goal of all mages and by using her already open connection he can reach it, supposedly without the counterforce activating. (It actually did in the form of Tomoe escaping the complex.)

4) We don't know which one was the "real" Aozaki and neither does she. The whole point of the puppet scene was that she made one so perfect that the World recognizes each of those puppets as the true Aozaki. When one dies, the next in line simply wakes up as if they were asleep. It's the same soul so the new body receives everything the previous had--abilities and memories.

5) I'm not exactly sure. I'm pretty sure she just liked how Shiki looked and decided to make one that looks like her.

Hope that helps.

On another note, July 29th can't come quickly enough.

Thanks that helped a lot but just to confirm things further.

Spoiler for a bit more:

2) If she can see the end of all things, why is it that Aozaki said her eyes won't work on the dead spirits in Movie 4? That's actually what really confused me. I'm assuming her eyes evolved since then from just "death" to "end". I'm also a bit confused as to how Araya had no lines on him, invincible to her attacks, but eventually succumbed to them at the end.

3) What is the Origin/Akashic record? Is it that void/dream sequence that Shiki was in when she was dying? Or is this Nasu Kinoko's way of saying heaven/hell/god/death/devil/demon/everything/nothing? I'm assuming the counter force is not something tangible, but instead events of fate itself? Since this is the same world as Tsukihime, I'm assuming Tohno Shiki is also close to the Origin/Akashic record?

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by jonli

Thanks that helped a lot but just to confirm things further.

Spoiler for a bit more:

3) What is the Origin/Akashic record? Is it that void/dream sequence that Shiki was in when she was dying? Or is this Nasu Kinoko's way of saying heaven/hell/god/death/devil/demon/everything/nothing? I'm assuming the counter force is not something tangible, but instead events of fate itself? Since this is the same world as Tsukihime, I'm assuming Tohno Shiki is also close to the Origin/Akashic record?

Spoiler for answer...kinda..:

The Origin (Natsuverse fans can correct me if I'm wrong) is the 'Truth' to everything. I think it's like gaining the ultimate knowledge of some sort.

Kara no Kyoukai isn't the same world as Tsukihime, since the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception cannot exist in two people. It's more of an alternate reality. And yes, Tohno Shiki was close the the Origin too

Spoiler for tsukihime:

when he was nearly killed by the other Shiki (in Tsukihime)

.

[jonli]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

Spoiler for answer...kinda..:

The Origin (Natsuverse fans can correct me if I'm wrong) is the 'Truth' to everything. I think it's like gaining the ultimate knowledge of some sort.

Kara no Kyoukai isn't the same world as Tsukihime, since the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception cannot exist in two people. It's more of an alternate reality. And yes, Tohno Shiki was close the the Origin too

Spoiler for tsukihime:

when he was nearly killed by the other Shiki (in Tsukihime)

.

Wait I thought a couple pages in this thread just proved that they ARE actually the same universe?

Aozaki sisters too!

And I thought the probability of having MEofDP is just SO low that being in two people is almost 0%, but not impossible.

EDIT: Also to my understanding, Ryogi and Tohno's MEofDP are fundamentally different from each other. Maybe that's why it's possible?

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by jonli

Wait I thought a couple pages in this thread just proved that they ARE actually the same universe?

Aozaki sisters too!

And I thought the probability of having MEofDP is just SO low that being in two people is almost 0%, but not impossible.

EDIT: Also to my understanding, Ryogi and Tohno's MEofDP are fundamentally different from each other. Maybe that's why it's possible?

Well, I don't know then. I just remember reading it somewhere.

[MrTerrorist]

Originally Posted by jonli

Wait I thought a couple pages in this thread just proved that they ARE actually the same universe?

Aozaki sisters too!

And I thought the probability of having MEofDP is just SO low that being in two people is almost 0%, but not impossible.

EDIT: Also to my understanding, Ryogi and Tohno's MEofDP are fundamentally different from each other. Maybe that's why it's possible?

Spoiler for reply:

I'm not sure how this confusion about the different universe thing started but this is how it all began if i remember.
When Type-Moon group was becoming popular thanks to Tsukihime, someone did an english translations on all of their works during that time. One of those translations was about how Tsukihime & KNK were from different universes and for a time, it was considered canon. But as type-moon became a company, their popularity increasing and attracting more english fans, some people started to have doubts about the different universe theory when they themselves did some research.

The problem was that most of the sources that was translated the first time weren't from the creator Kinoko Nasu himself but by fans who interpreted the information they got out of his works. This has led some fans to believe the 2 universe theory was inaccurate and all three works (Fate/stay Night, Tsukihime, Kara no Kyoukai) do take place in the same universe since both Tsukihime & FSN made some reference to Kara. Of course this has divided the fans into 2 camps;"The same universe camp" & "the different universe camp".

The only way to confirmed on which theory is true is to ask the creator himself but unfortunately he doesn't talk that much.

I hope that helps you understand but please remember, this is something i think i remember so i might be wrong in some parts.

[kaizer63]

Originally Posted by jonli

Thanks that helped a lot but just to confirm things further.

Spoiler for a bit more:

2) If she can see the end of all things, why is it that Aozaki said her eyes won't work on the dead spirits in Movie 4? That's actually what really confused me. I'm assuming her eyes evolved since then from just "death" to "end". I'm also a bit confused as to how Araya had no lines on him, invincible to her attacks, but eventually succumbed to them at the end.

3) What is the Origin/Akashic record? Is it that void/dream sequence that Shiki was in when she was dying? Or is this Nasu Kinoko's way of saying heaven/hell/god/death/devil/demon/everything/nothing? I'm assuming the counter force is not something tangible, but instead events of fate itself? Since this is the same world as Tsukihime, I'm assuming Tohno Shiki is also close to the Origin/Akashic record?

Spoiler for even more answers:

In movie four she said that her eyes wouldn't work because she wasn't completely aware of how powerful they were. She thought they only saw the end of life (like SHIKI's eyes from Tsukihime) while they always saw the "end." So her eyes haven't evolved at all, Tohko just didn't know how powerful they truly were.

This part is mostly speculation on my part, but from what I got from the movie:
Shiki couldn't see the lines on Araya because he was inside the apartment that he'd made an extension of his body. Inside of that he's got his additional barriers, plus the conceptual link to the state of the building that makes him effectively immortal as long as he's inside of it. Shiki eventually got him because in trying to take over her he made the Akashic personality take over. That Shiki knows and can see literally everything and he stood no chance. Once he left the building he once again had lines and lost his immortality.

You have a pretty good grasp of the Origin. And the counterforce is more than just fate. Essentially, the World will try to respond to threats with the least amount of reaction to prevent things from harming it. This can be as simple as making someone pause for a moment and in that time something happens that prevents them from inflicting harm. It can also go as far as summoning multiple Counter Guardians like Archer to take you out. So sometimes it is intangible and other times... not so much.

[Avisch]

Originally Posted by jonli

Wait I thought a couple pages in this thread just proved that they ARE actually the same universe?

Aozaki sisters too!

And I thought the probability of having MEofDP is just SO low that being in two people is almost 0%, but not impossible.

EDIT: Also to my understanding, Ryogi and Tohno's MEofDP are fundamentally different from each other. Maybe that's why it's possible?

It goes like such.

-Both universes (for the most part) have the same core people, organizations, terms, and ideas.

-The only problem is the MEofDP (despite the differences of the eyes both Shikis have) it is just incredibly unlikely. You can ignore that, but also Touko's search for a the original concept of humanity somehow contradicts the existence of Arcueid and the true Ancestors (Im not too specific on the details). The Dead Apostles are also never mentioned in Kara no Kyoukai (I think, can't confirm)

Some people try to sum this up as Zelretch messing around with parallel universes (and he appears in both Tsukihime and Fate)

[klare]

finally marathoned till chapter 5

i feel chapter 5 has drop a bit quality campared to the previous 4 chapters, but the story telling is fantastic, i hope the next chapter can regain the standard quality

i like the way the characters interact with each other

[jonli]

I see!

Thank you all for giving me a better idea of how things are suppose to be

[Siegel Clyne]

UTB Hollywood, an OTA (off the air/over the air) digital television broadcasting station (Channel 18.2) in the Los Angeles area, aired an episode of the NHK World TV show Pop Up Japan titled, "Live in Tokyo ~ Japanese Songstresses," from NHK Fureai Hall on Saturday, June 27, 2009, 12:10 PM - 1:00 PM PDT. Hosted by the comedy duo Pakkun (Pack'n aka Patrick Harlan from the US) Makkun (Mack'n aka Yoshida Makoto), it featured TSUNKU's Canary CLUB, Pop Up Japan's own special music commentator JYONGRI, yusa mimori... and the Kajiura Yuki project Kalafina (Hikaru, Keiko, Wakana).

Kalafina performed ending theme songs for Kara no Kyoukai ~the Garden of sinners~, "oblivious" from Fukan Fuukei (Movie 1) and "sprinter" from Mujun Rasen (Movie 5), as well as the second ending theme song for the Kuroshitsuji television animation series, "Lacrimosa."

For more information on UTB Hollywood and its generous anime lineup, see S. California Digital TV Station Adds Haruhi Suzumiya - Anime News Network [ANN].

For reasons why the only Japanese OTA DTV station in the Los Angeles area apparently aims so much of its programming at English speakers, among many other things one may not know, read my posts in response to the Anime News Newtwork article cited above, Los Angeles Japanese TV Station Targets English Speakers and Japanese-Celtic Politician, Anglo-Japanese Rapper.*

*The reasons seem to be largely demographic, as exemplified by two winners of the highly popular US TV program on ABC, Dancing with the Stars, Apolo Anton Ohno (Season 4 champion) and Kristi Yamaguchi (Season 6 champion).

World champion and Olympic gold medalist men's short track speedskater Apolo Ohno is half Japanese and half Caucasian, while world champion and Olympic gold medalist women's singles figure skater Kristi Yamaguchi is a Yonsei, or a fourth generation Japanese American.

[ZODDGUTS]

Heh I saw that program. Surprised by how good they sang live.

[Yu Ominae]

Some news folks.

Final KnK Trailer streamed.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

Some news folks.

Final KnK Trailer streamed.

Oh, that trailer's been out for a while, actually.

[NorthernFallout]

Hmm...missed that one. Sure is delicious anyway though, further spurs on my yell of "DO WANT NAOW" kinda.

[Master Assassin]

Originally Posted by Avisch

-Both universes (for the most part) have the same core people, organizations, terms, and ideas.

So that means there's a Nanaya in the Rakkyo universe as well? Although I don't think it'll be mentioned at all...

[MrTerrorist]

The six movie will be coming out in DVD 5 days!

To celebrate, i will be giving p.m. links to a very special Shiki & Azaka yuri doujin!

If your interested, just send me a msg.

PS. I also got a Toko & Aoko doujin if you guys want.

[klare]

the movie will be shown in Japan cinemas?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by klare

the movie will be shown in Japan cinemas?

It's already been shown in cinemas. 4/5 days until the DVD release.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by klare

the movie will be shown in Japan cinemas?

He means on DVD. It had been shown a while ago.

[Sakome]

I think the latest one is out already. I can't wait, having never read the novels I'm looking forward to Azaka. Wonder if she is as awesome as Akiha from Tsukihime.