GONZO: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[zzeroparticle]

Originally Posted by Nemuru

The bokurano manga fans are probably the worst critics I've seen around the net, I just can't agree with any of their justification, the entire content of the manga is quite questionable for a TV series. Even with the mangaka approval of the anime the fan's go out of their way claiming the anime should be made by the book.

No argument there. I mostly chalk that up to something I call "Tsukihime syndrome" in which the fans of the original work berate an above-average series because it didn't match the expectations put forth with the source material.

The issue I find with Gonzo personally is that the quality of their shows vary wildly from being awesome to being downright terrible. This lack of consistency creates a huge barrier to entry for those who want to watch something that has some quality to it, and having to dig through each of Gonzo's shows to see whether it's good or whether it sucks is time-consuming. I'd rather not even bother.

At least with the other studios, I have some sort of an idea of what I'm getting into.

[DragoonKain3]

I feel bad for Gonzo, mainly because I applaud them for actually trying to beat the fansubbers in their own game (If you can't beat them, join them philosophy). Someone had to do it, and I hope it's successful enough that other companies who has aims for the western market follows suit.

Sure, them putting only 5 mins of the last two episodes of druaga on Youtube was basically like a slap in the face (I was half thinking of donating before then, but now, never), but that's entirely besides the point. XD

[Jiyuu]

Sure, them putting only 5 mins of the last two episodes of druaga on Youtube was basically like a slap in the face (I was half thinking of donating before then, but now, never), but that's entirely besides the point. XD

i heard they did upload the whole episode in the end...

and the episodes were available via crunchyroll.
i guess youtube simply wasn't profitable, or at least as profitable as crunchy so they were trying to shift people over there..

Brave Story (Movie) 156,337 (cumulative sales of three versions) (Gonzo/Viz Media)
2006/11/23 96,805 Standard Edition
2006/11/23 48,360 Limited Edition
2006/11/23 11,172 Collector's BOX

it says viz, doesn't that mean R1 release?
do they even earn money from R1 sales? i thought the deal was that they just get some big licensing fee at the start and thats basically it..
do anime studios actually earn quantities that actually matter from R1 sales?

[Siegel Clyne]

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

i heard they did upload the whole episode in the end...

and the episodes were available via crunchyroll.
i guess youtube simply wasn't profitable, or at least as profitable as crunchy so they were trying to shift people over there..



it says viz, doesn't that mean R1 release?
do they even earn money from R1 sales? i thought the deal was that they just get some big licensing fee at the start and thats basically it..
do anime studios actually earn quantities that actually matter from R1 sales?

Oricon deals with DVD sales in Japan.

To the best of my knowledge, Brave Story has not been released on R1 DVD.

[WanderingKnight]

Well Dragonaut is quite an interesting one, at a glance I thought only people who enjoyed large breast woman would be considering their main audience yet alot of people watches it.

You DO realize that Dragonaut is probably the worst series made by a major studio of, perhaps, the last decade, right? Right? I mean, the people watching it might simply be doing it because of the "it's so bad it's good" appeal. Though it didn't have that for me (I would watch Musashi Gandou because I'm sure it's a parody, but I can't say the same of Dragonaut, unfortunately).

Gonzo has been in a downwards spiral for some years now. The last thing I enjoyed (and quite a bit) from them was NHK, but that was probably more due to the original material than for anything else--even though it was well handled, except perhaps in those episodes which appeared to be missing key animators (episode 4, for example). I still can't believe how so many people keep on ignoring the dwindling quality of Last Exile in episodes 9 ~ 16, even if the series was worthwhile in the end. Gankutsuou was a masterpiece, and I really give them props for that... but they didn't release anything as stunning since then. With things like Dragonaut, I feel they weren't even trying. In that series, CG, which used to be Gonzo's forte, was horrible, even when the 2D art seemed to have a decent amount of bucks thrown at it. When compared to other major studios like IG or Bones, and studios that are quietly growing on me like Brains-Base, they lose out big time. The only major studios that "pander to the otaku demographic", as you put it, are probably Sunrise and JC Staff, but they do it well (even though I have my qualms about JC).

Since the two first episodes of Druaga, I have refrained from watching anything else from them. Unless there's too much of a buzz from people I can somewhat relate to when it comes to tastes, or unless the series' summary is too good to be true, I won't even bother with their series.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

You DO realize that Dragonaut is probably the worst series made by a major studio of, perhaps, the last decade, right? Right? I mean, the people watching it might simply be doing it because of the "it's so bad it's good" appeal. Though it didn't have that for me (I would watch Musashi Gandou because I'm sure it's a parody, but I can't say the same of Dragonaut, unfortunately).

Gonzo has been in a downwards spiral for some years now. The last thing I enjoyed (and quite a bit) from them was NHK, but that was probably more due to the original material than for anything else--even though it was well handled, except perhaps in those episodes which appeared to be missing key animators (episode 4, for example). I still can't believe how so many people keep on ignoring the dwindling quality of Last Exile in episodes 9 ~ 16, even if the series was worthwhile in the end. Gankutsuou was a masterpiece, and I really give them props for that... but they didn't release anything as stunning since then. With things like Dragonaut, I feel they weren't even trying. In that series, CG, which used to be Gonzo's forte, was horrible, even when the 2D art seemed to have a decent amount of bucks thrown at it. When compared to other major studios like IG or Bones, and studios that are quietly growing on me like Brains-Base, they lose out big time. The only major studios that "pander to the otaku demographic", as you put it, are probably Sunrise and JC Staff, but they do it well (even though I have my qualms about JC).

Since Dragonaut, I have refrained from watching anything else from them. Unless there's too much of a buzz from people I can somewhat relate to when it comes to tastes, or unless the series' summary is too good to be true, I won't even bother with their series.

Kyoani kind of panders to the otaku base lately too I find(Seriously I can't keep them off that list after Lucky Star), but then again they aren't exactly a major studio and they do it somewhat well like Sunrise and J.C Staff. As for Gonzo I'm not sure what they are doing. They seem to be like the FOX Network, just throwing out any random idea and seeing if it works. I'm not sure how much market research they are actually doing as they seem all over the place. Hopefully this is the wakeup call they need and they'll start calling in some consultants and making changes.

Though honestly the anime market seems to have been in a downward spiral lately. The only parent company that seems to be exhibiting any growth is Bandai while major players like GDH and Kadokawa are in the red. Couple that with the western markets downward spiral continuing with only Funimation appearing to do well (at least on the surface) and I can't help but feel we're in for a bit of a crash. Shame really as the year and a half has seen some great series and I want that trend to continue.

[Jiyuu]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

You DO realize that Dragonaut is probably the worst series made by a major studio of, perhaps, the last decade, right? Right? I mean, the people watching it might simply be doing it because of the "it's so bad it's good" appeal. Though it didn't have that for me (I would watch Musashi Gandou because I'm sure it's a parody, but I can't say the same of Dragonaut, unfortunately).

Gonzo has been in a downwards spiral for some years now. The last thing I enjoyed (and quite a bit) from them was NHK, but that was probably more due to the original material than for anything else--even though it was well handled, except perhaps in those episodes which appeared to be missing key animators (episode 4, for example). I still can't believe how so many people keep on ignoring the dwindling quality of Last Exile in episodes 9 ~ 16, even if the series was worthwhile in the end. Gankutsuou was a masterpiece, and I really give them props for that... but they didn't release anything as stunning since then. With things like Dragonaut, I feel they weren't even trying. In that series, CG, which used to be Gonzo's forte, was horrible, even when the 2D art seemed to have a decent amount of bucks thrown at it. When compared to other major studios like IG or Bones, and studios that are quietly growing on me like Brains-Base, they lose out big time. The only major studios that "pander to the otaku demographic", as you put it, are probably Sunrise and JC Staff, but they do it well (even though I have my qualms about JC).

Since Dragonaut, I have refrained from watching anything else from them. Unless there's too much of a buzz from people I can somewhat relate to when it comes to tastes, or unless the series' summary is too good to be true, I won't even bother with their series.

well, i don't know what gonzo titles you've been watching but there were plenty of great animes from them sinse then..
just to name some of them you have
red garden, seto no hanayome and druaga.
in the 1.5~ years from nhk thats at least one good series per 6 months or so..

[Tiberium Wolf]

No matter how awesome you ppl say their titles are if they dont sell then they are worthless. What counts are sales numbers and not your opinion that the series is great or not.

Since their net loss was so big only there is only 1 reason. The titles they made were mediocre/bad.

If they don't shift the tide they will be eaten by others. Harsh world!

[Slice of Life]

Trying to be objective, I'd put Kurenai, Kaiba, and Twenty Faces above anything I recall Gonzo doing. (Including Gankutsuou. Definitely so.) And that's from Spring 2008 alone. Personally, I think their shows are neither the smartest, nor the funniest, the most exicting or the most heart-warming out there. No matter how I look at them they are no great studio. Your view might differ but for once the customer base seems to agree with me which happens rarely enough.

But still, a few months the thought that Gonzo of all studios might go down wouldn't even have crossed my mind. Well, if I were more interested in industry news then maybe it would. I always thought of Gonzo as a studio that caters the masses with mediocre stuff, yes. But that should be a safer strategy than concentrating on niche audiences. Looks like I my view on the market was warped. If I were more interested in industry news etcpp, well, see above.

I'd rather not see them die and be it only for the sake of variety on the market from which we all profit.

[WanderingKnight]

well, i don't know what gonzo titles you've been watching but there were plenty of great animes from them sinse then..
just to name some of them you have
red garden, seto no hanayome and druaga.

Red Garden I haven't watched, but then again I haven't been interested in it either. Seto no Hanayome was entertaining, but I definitely wouldn't call it a "great" anime by any means. It has a particular style of humor which is effective enough, but it doesn't go beyond that. And I watched a few episodes of Druaga and couldn't stand it (it made me take the decision not to watch anything Gonzo anymore).

If you were intending to compare SnH and Druaga to Gankutusou, well then, I don't know what to say...

I'd rather not see them die and be it only for the sake of variety on the market from which we all profit.

Yeah, me too... it doesn't make me feel good, either. However, I would feel really bad if, for example, Bones happened to be in this situation, though, so if any major studio has to go through this, I prefer it to be Gonzo.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

though, so if any major studio has to go through this, I prefer it to be Gonzo.

Also true.

[Matrim]

Sad news to me. GONZO has produced quite a few dire series but they produce many different types of anime and are not afraid to try something new (I am looking at you KyoAni). No wonder they are going down, though, not nearly enough otaku-friendly titles until recently. Looking at the link to Strike Witches site it almost hurts me to see just how much otaku-friendly they are trying to become but if that will save the studio, let it be.

Red Garden was great (IMO even better than Kurani which is by the same director) and Bokurano's first half was great while the second one was not that bad. If one considers only the amount of negative posts towards gonzo he would think that they have created nothing but crap in their history...

You DO realize that Dragonaut is probably the worst series made by a major studio of, perhaps, the last decade, right?

Cough, Mai-Otome, cough.

[WanderingKnight]

Mai Otome was definitely not good, but I don't think it suffered half of the problems Dragonaut had. At least the characters made a bit of sense.

[qtipbrit]

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

well, i don't know what gonzo titles you've been watching but there were plenty of great animes from them sinse then..
just to name some of them you have
red garden, seto no hanayome and druaga.
in the 1.5~ years from nhk thats at least one good series per 6 months or so..

While Red Garden, and SnH are widely (or widely enough) regaraded as successful and meritable sereis, Druaga... not so much.

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

No matter how awesome you ppl say their titles are if they dont sell then they are worthless. What counts are sales numbers and not your opinion that the series is great or not.

... so you're supporting the statement that Rosario is Gonzo's best work within the last four years?

I agree with Kaoishin-sama here.
Gonzo dabbles in several different genres, while Sunrise does mostly mecha with some work outside, J.C. works in romance (Kasai), and some action, and KyoAni really does just pander to the otaku community (Key adaptations, Haruhi, and Lucky Star?)

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

No matter how awesome you ppl say their titles are if they dont sell then they are worthless. What counts are sales numbers and not your opinion that the series is great or not.

Since their net loss was so big only there is only 1 reason. The titles they made were mediocre/bad.

If they don't shift the tide they will be eaten by others. Harsh world!

Or that some are a stroke of genius but doesn't suit the tastes of a lot of people or are overshadowned and missed out...
I still can't get over how Rosario got more sales than SnH...it makes no sense

[Tiberium Wolf]

Originally Posted by qtipbrit92

... so you're supporting the statement that Rosario is Gonzo's best work within the last four years?

I am not saying that it's the best work. But producing something that doesn't sells seems kinda pointless, don't you think? They don't get money out of thin air to waste on shows that no one buys.

[Matrim]

Mai Otome was definitely not good, but I don't think it suffered half of the problems Dragonaut had. At least the characters made a bit of sense.

Only if one had watched Mai-Hime though, pretty much all the original characters of Otome were beyond annoying. retarded, non-sensical or all of the above.

I am not saying that it's the best work. But producing something that doesn't sells seems kinda pointless, don't you think? They don't get money out of thin air to waste on shows that no one buys.

Of course, but gonzo's problems seems more in the marketting and targetting the wrong audiences than in the produced series themselves. They need to stop producing two or three series a season, IMO, won't it be better to produced fewer but with better chances to repay the investment?

[WanderingKnight]

Gonzo dabbles in several different genres, while Sunrise does mostly mecha with some work outside, J.C. works in romance (Kasai), and some action, and KyoAni really does just pander to the otaku community (Key adaptations, Haruhi, and Lucky Star?)

The problem is that neither of those (Gonzo, JC or Sunrise) produce what I'd rate as masterpieces. Sunrise is nice to watch, but sometimes I feel the stuff they do doesn't suit me too much (or they lose the track like in CG season 2). I don't like JC's genericness when it comes to visual styling, and I somewhat hate the hordes of fanboys behind their Type Moon and Shana titles. And well, Gonzo has pretty much been talked about here.

I believe people should be comparing Gonzo to the likes of Bones and IG. Or at least that's what I compare them to, since those are the studios I enjoy the most.

Only if one had watched Mai-Hime though, pretty much all the original characters of Otome were beyond annoying. retarded, non-sensical or all of the above.

Well, while I agree that their choice for a main character (and seiyuu!) was beyond annoying, the rest of them weren't that bad. And Mashiro was a great character (though I might be spoiled by Yukana a bit).

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

The problem is that neither of those (Gonzo, JC or Sunrise) produce what I'd rate as masterpieces. Sunrise is nice to watch, but sometimes I feel the stuff they do doesn't suit me too much (or they lose the track like in CG season 2). I don't like JC's genericness when it comes to visual styling, and I somewhat hate the hordes of fanboys behind their Type Moon and Shana titles. And well, Gonzo has pretty much been talked about here.

I believe people should be comparing Gonzo to the likes of Bones and IG. Or at least that's what I compare them to, since those are the studios I enjoy the most.



Well, while I agree that their choice for a main character (and seiyuu!) was beyond annoying, the rest of them weren't that bad. And Mashiro was a great character (though I might be spoiled by Yukana a bit).

I believe we shouldn't be comparing anyone really and should be looking at what Gonzo is doing and diagnosing the problem. We all understand that Gonzo, or rather GDH who is the real one in jeopardy, doesn't produce "Slice of Life" series or "masterpieces" as you and SoL have pointed out, but that's not the problem, the problem is cash. People are assuming here that GDH will make more money if they make "better" anime. That is not the case. Money in Japan in almost all cases I've seen comes through having access to the right licenses and proven name brands with which to make use of. Just looking at the latest DVD Rankings on ANN we can see that all of them carry names like Clannad (Key), Gintama (Shonen Jump), Evangelion (Ummmm Evangelion), Pocket Monsters (Nintendo) or Dragon Ball GT (Shonen Jump), Gundam (Bandai/Sunrise) that are extremely popular with Otaku and considered proven names.

The Kurenai's that people are so very fond of are not even money makers in the sense that something like Tower of Druaga is, a legendary Namco licence is. You will not see their likes outselling other popular name brand DVD's (in fact for a DVD due out in less than 2 weeks, it's current ranking as 116 on the Oricon charts are quiet abysmal unfortunately and indeed Aegis is at 44 from what I'm seeing so yeah.....) or being competitive titles on the market. It's likely the DVD's for Aegis of Uruk however will continue to sell quite well on the Druaga name alone. This is what GDH wants, profitable media.

The problem is that GDH is to unfocused with their products, to large to support themselves and NOT bringing in the cash. They more than likely need to find a niche within which to find a loyal audience, downsize (god forbid I should ever use that horrible horrible word, but I mean it in terms of producing less unprofitable series a season as Matrim suggested, because their own market saturation isn't helping, but also keeping a large enough company size and profile to qualify for listing) so they aren't competing with themselves so much, and call in some consultants to find untapped market potential and where they can cut some expenses. Then perhaps they can increase their revenue and make some profit.

[rg4619]

But still, a few months the thought that Gonzo of all studios might go down wouldn't even have crossed my mind. Well, if I were more interested in industry news then maybe it would.

Yes, within anime fandom, financial information on studios seems to go unnoticed. It surprises me since many video game fans follow earnings reports (which are summarized by game sites), which could reveal some things about a company's future.

I mean, Gonzo announced a $25 million loss last year, along with a strategy shift (otaku + hip American-centric shows), which certainly explains the quality and focus of their recent productions.