2007-01-12, 13:12 | Link #181 |
Knightmare
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Lelouch won the battle of Narita now mather how you look. De damage to the Oder was little, they lost 3 or 4 Knightmares and thats it. Cornelia lost at least 80% during the operation only to the landslide. SO it is Lelouch victory either way around.
Also the part of "I'm bigger than yours" as you say is important because we are talking about there way of achiving things. Uptil now you talked about Suzaku and his doing things is better on the whol. But the fact is he isn't doing anything. |
2007-01-12, 13:41 | Link #182 |
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nanaya..... you must really love suzaku no?
I m not trying to judge what you said or what the other said. But ONE thing is totally undeniable: Suzaku cannot change britannia. Even if all the royal familie dies except yuffie. Why you could ask me.... Because Brittania isnt a democracy , not even a monarchy by the feeling cg gives us, but a dictature ruled by the almigthy king and the noble court. You may say that the conquered area can govern themselves and such but it looks to me that the king can do whatever he wants (by assassination if needed) and the nobles can also have some pression on the king (well not on lulu s father coz hes too strong). But yuffie if she is ever to be queen wouldnt use murder or anything of the sort, and thus couldnt control the empire because other people(the britannian nobles) wouldnt hesitate to murder her for the throne. The power struggle in the higher sphere of the britanian empire is a real lion pit and there is no way that an honorary britanian can change that. Another thing that you cant deny is that it is quite wrong for suzaku to always speak of justice. I m not saying that zero is more in the justice side than suzaku nor that suzaku is a treator. But Britannia had invaded japan for money and thus killed a lot of people , than parked most of the people in ghettos and calling them by a number like animals or objects. Althougth there is a system of honorary britanians, it must be really hard for the japanese to get it, because you must accept to become a dog to the britanians (the hot dog seller WAS a honorary britanian and to work he must endure some humiliation). We must not forget that it has not been a very long time since britania invaded japan so rigth now britannians are still invaders in most japanese views. It is really hard to try to blend in..... ok suzaku is trying to give an example by trying to get the best of the britanian invasion but it is not easy, not everyone can do it. Try to think for a real life exemple in the place of the irakians. Is it easy to be supportive to the americans who invaded their country? (well of course irak is very extreme). Well back to topic, I wanted to say that terrorrisms in a country that has been invaded is to be expected, it is totally normal. But the army of occupation that figth the terrorrists hardly have justice with them, and thus suzaku that works for such an army doesnt have justice behind him. Well I know there migth be holes in my speech, coz it was long and I m too lazy to reread, but I ll gladly develop my point of view to say that it is totally impossible for suzaku to change britannia and that suzaku is a hypocrite if he thinks justice is with him/the britnian army |
2007-01-12, 14:00 | Link #184 |
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Hi I'm new here (I've lurked for a while, but just registered today).
I have to say that I hate Suzaku with a passion, for cooperating with the empire that invaded his own country and treat his own people like dog, and for being a hypocrite. I hope that Lelouch or whoever will give him a healthy dose of reality, make him fall like a rock and cry like a little girl (ala Shinn Asuka) eventually. Death is too good for him. |
2007-01-12, 14:26 | Link #185 | |
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(1) You are misunderstanding between an "useful tool" and a "respectable human". He can show that he is an "outstanding Honorary Britannian" or whatever, and even if the royalty may "respect" him (not really though, except Euphie, they only feel glad to have such a good dog), he cannot make them listen to him, as: - Even a prince is nothing, so the words of just a "honor" has no weight. Remember Lulu's mother. She become empress from a commoner, and see what she got. Suzaku is much lower than her in all's view, and will be easily eliminated if they want. Euphie now may also be dead if she raises his idea. - Showing that one can be "good" doesn't lead to the change of Britanian's mind about all of the Japanese (the empires will only think: ok, this traitor is useful). You know, a good dog is always a dog, and lower than even a bad person. --> He is only know as the Number pilot of Lancelot. Like the Lancelot, he may climb to an important position, but always they use him, not vice versa (maybe yes if he only want sth for himself, and has a brain, here he has no brain and wants a revolution !!) (2) As I've said, his "changing from inside" is unrealistic. But more important than that is what he's doing is not less evil than Zero but he is so shameless to be angry with Zero's every move (to him, Zero shouldn't save the hostages, and let them face the risks to die in his show-off). Moreover, he didn't piss of with the army's massacres at all, and still helping them to kill his ppl Last edited by antheonoileo; 2007-01-12 at 14:38. |
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2007-01-12, 15:14 | Link #186 | ||||||||||
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Oh, and if anything makes Suzaku look like a fool it's his own actions and statements. Actually staying in the army after nearly getting executed unjustly by them, and making hypocritical statements about Zero don't reflect well on himself. Lelouche is no saint, and he does have his own agenda, but at least he doesn't make excuses for himself. Quote:
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2007-01-12, 15:29 | Link #187 | ||
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Nanaya:
You bring up good points, and it's good to see someone arguing Suzaku's side for a change. With that said: Quote:
Now let's consider Suzaku. He joins the military. Great. He wants to change Britannia from the inside. Also great. Respectable goal. Purely idiotic means of getting his message across. Before we get to his means, let's examine his actions thus far: 1) BECAUSE Karen & Co. stole C.C. and Lulu happens to get stuck in the whole ensuing mess, Suzie gets a shiny mech. Because of this, he is in effect bringing a gun to a fist fight everytime he waltzed onto the field. 2) BECAUSE Lulu got the Geass ability and committed fratricide, Suz gets public recognition for a crime he didn't commit. Not really a good thing, but it leads into his other "accomplishments." 3) BECAUSE Lulu CHOSE to save him, he gets cleared of all charges. 4) BECAUSE he gets cleared of all charges, he meets Euphie. A royal princess who just so happens to have a military general for an elder sister. 5) BECAUSE Lulu Oranged Jeremiah, Suzaku was able to act the hero and save the day. 6) BECAUSE Zero was such a thorn in Cornelia's side, Suzaku got to play the dashing hero, again. And again. And again. Now, of all the things he's supposedly accomplished, how many of those things would he have gotten done if Zero wasn't in the picture? I say, not bloody much. He'd likely have died without anyone knowing his name. Would Britannia have recognized his service? Probably not. Suzaku sure likes to whine about the meaning of justice and all that merry stuff, but the doing seems quite out of his league. Lloyd even takes him to task on the very matter on at least two separate occasions. Even Lulu's dependence on PDs isn't quite this drastic. He does take matters into his own hands whenever possible. However, I'll buy the destiny bit. Perhaps Suzaku was fated for these things. Unlikely to happen in the real world, but perfectly fine within the confines of an animated series. But let us now examine his methods. The Numbers system takes away a nation's cultural identity. A conquered country suddenly becomes little more than a number in Britannia's territories: no culture, no identity, no pride. As someone above this post said, Britannia behaves like a military dictatorship, and strength seems to be valued above all else. Now please tell me how a Number can ever hope to impress his obviously racist superiors (I'm thinking of the Special Ops commander in Episode 1 here.) Even the rank and file seems to have little qualms with killing the elderly, and women and children. These are your examples of understanding Britannians. Quote:
Cornelia isn't the greatest example either: Suzaku saved her life as well as that of her beloved sister. She's biased towards him. How impressed would she have been with Suzaku if he hadn't done those things? Would she have been impressed in his ability to follow orders? No - the woman kills soldiers who can't follow retreat orders, as we've all seen. And the student council (and here, I'm guessing you're excluding Nina.) Biggest bunch of fops I've ever seen. Likely to be quite well off if they're attending a prestigious academic institution. Most likely just as sheltered as Euphie. How about the other students at Ashford? You know, the ones that were so excited at looking over pictures of the Shinjuku massacre? The only Britannians that truly accept Elevens as equals despite their upbringing, IMO, are Cecil and maybe Diethard. Two people in a sea of racists. In fact, I'll even toss in the entire Ashford Academy as supporters of equality in all Britannia. That's what...a thousand people? Opposed to the entire Purist faction, and the seemingly ingrained idea of Britannian superiority over inferior 'Numbers.' Suddenly the future looks bleak. The obvious RL historical parallel with Suzaku that I can think of right now would be Flavius(?) Stilicho of Rome. This dude was half Roman, half barbarian, but because of his efforts the Empire was able to survive for a few more years. He had many reasons to take control himself, yet he didn't. He defended the Empire, and acted the good little Roman well. And in the end, all it took to take him down was a couple of jealous aristocrats. And things just went to hell after he died. For both the Foederati (sp?) and for pure Romans. In the end, I guess all I have to say regarding Suzaku is his original character concept is truly strange. It's like he thinks that by doing his job - something that's expected in the military - he's going to get Britannia to suddenly change its ways. Sorry, I don't buy it. Unless he is as immortal as C.C., I don't see it working in his lifetime. Let's put it this way: if you were Jewish, would you have joined Hitler's armies? How far do you think you would have gotten? Not to say I don't expect great things from this character: he has the potential for lots of drama, precisely because of his astonishingly hypocritical stance. |
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2007-01-12, 15:40 | Link #188 |
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The most annoying thing about Suzaku is that everyone in the anime seems to sympathize with his half-assed logic, and doesn't point out the various flaws in his plan (if he has one). The last thing we need is Sunrise turning him into a Kira clone and the show will be complete trash. Ugh!
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2007-01-12, 19:39 | Link #189 | |
~Night of Gales~
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Not that I'm saying it's a good thing for him to be a Kira clone (( not melancholic and vague enough )), but ideally, the worst things about him are hardly the worst things about Kira. If anything, he needs to be a Griffith clone..Oh wait, that's Lelouch.
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2007-01-12, 19:58 | Link #190 |
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[QUOTE=Nanaya;797679]Sorry for the double posts, but I'm only human. It's like one man against the machine here.
While you do provide some good points, some are just unrealistic. To kill off every other royal means that he will be suspected of high treason and his dreams will end there. And Suzaku is trying to make the Britannians accept him as he is, leading to his fellow Numbers being accepted as well. Also about Germania and Rome: They exist in a world where the Britannian Empire probably has the most powerful military in the world with rapid reaction ability due to ease of transportation. They can nip rapidly massing forces with said capability before those even become a threat. The Romans didn't have that back then. The technological difference is too great. Between that time and this Geass world, and between the Elevens and the Britannians. And even though the Narita Battle was considered a personal loss by Cornelia, it was a military victory in that the largest forces of the JLF were crushed. We are nowhere near the point where the Imperial Army is under grave threat. Except the Battle of Narita would be a victory only it it was a war of conquest, which it isn't. Narita was already under Britannian occupation officialy. This is an insurgency despite the pitched battles and in insurgencies the occupying power has to win conviciningly, and having 80% armour losses , approximately 80 Knightmares of the 100 assault team of the vanguard, loss of one division in one enemy trap (not counting civilian and troop casulties), the CO AND colonial administrator under real threat of capture isn't going to be counted as a win in almost all military situations, especially an insurgency. Throw in the breaking of formation during the retreat to rescue Cornelia and the fact that the insurgency leader again evaded capture and you have a full blown disaster on your hands. Even in a war of conquest this would be a pyrhrric victory at best, in an insurgency this is a disaster. Sure, the JLF saw the routing of their main base and main army but it was to be expected when an insurgent group comes under heavy assault by the occupying force. For the occupying forces, victory should have been at minimal cost which it was going to be until Zero decided to give them a mud bath and send Kallen ripping up Britannian units. It was a disaster for the JLF but the Brits paid dearly for the "victory" in which a reble group already nearing it's limit was used very effectively as cannon fodder by the new, real threat which is the Order of the Black Knights to inflict horrendous casualties, come within inches of capturing the colonial admin thus shattering morale among the occupying forces and proving to the Japanese the Brits can be defeated in battle which they were, the resumed occupation of Narita, which shouldn't have been allowed to become JLF influenced anyway. It was an Order victory and Lulu never cared much for the JLF much anyway (to be honest, neither much of Japan). How many more Naritas can Britaninnia take before it becomes a Ligny (French victory) prelude to Waterloo (Sure you heard of that by now.) As for bumping off the other royals, Suzaku will obviously have to be in a position where either Euphie or Cornelia is will be supporting him when he through either of them presses the treason charges first. If anyone is able to presses treason against him still, then obviously he hasn't come far enough to be able to enact real change either through Euphie or Corneila who both must die, sooner or later. Especially Cornelia. Lastly, how can Suzaku ever make Britannians and Numbers equal when the national identity of the Empire is built on difference. For that to happen, the Brit/ Number difference will have to disappear and with it, the Empire. All Numbered areas and the homeland will have to come under ONE nation, without distinction between the areas and ALL considered Britannians. How is that going to happen? The Empire as it is will have to go along with it's old power structure and institutions. Will it cost chaos, probably not it Suzaku can replace them with his own counterparts. Will it be bloody when the "transition" takes place? Considering loss of political power in the Empire often results in the loss of life, limb and liberty I'd say yes it's going to be bloody, only this time the carnage will spread to all parts of the Empire, not just Area 11. |
2007-01-12, 20:37 | Link #191 | |
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2007-01-12, 20:46 | Link #192 | ||||||||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
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The landslide also damaged only a probably around 9-10% of Cornelia's forces at maximum if the Imperials swarmed the mountain all round by judging its size and direction. Quote:
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Euphemia isn't possibly the only moderate in the Empire. Quote:
The Iraq war is not really an easy way to get you through this argument. Americans only invaded to defeat Saddam. Not colonization. That's why Americans want to leave as soon as they have rebuilt the Iraqi Army. Also, Baghdad citizens actually welcome the presence of American soldiers because when they're there, less people die. The residents also know that if the Americans leave now, their country will descend to chaos and may be the starting point of a widespread Shiite-Sunni war. Suzaku allows himself to suffer the indignities of today so that the Numbers of tomorrow will have an equal standing in the Empire in the future WITHOUT the need for any things such as rebellions. Quote:
Changing Britannia is not impossible if Suzaku can foster trust and respect between Britannians and Numbers. Also, you shouldn't group Suzaku's justice with the justice of the Britannian army, coz' if you do, you will never see what Suzaku is really doing and what he is really sacrificing. Quote:
Just like the fact that I don't think that what the Britannians are doing is right, I also think that what Lulu is doing isn't right at all. Just because they win doesn't make them right. Historians don't give you your sense of right or wrong. YOU have your sense of right and wrong. Quote:
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Also, please, PLEASE don't talk about differentiating "useful tools" and "respectable humans" because everyone is classified whether they are useful or not and whether their usefulness demands respect and trust. It's just like Lulu "using" the entire Japan liberation effort for his true goal of destroying the Empire. Now that I think about it, Lelouche really is proving the truth in his father's words right at his banishment. Quote:
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LOOK, Suzaku has sacrificed his pride and his honor to pave a path not only for Elevens, but for all Numbers. His success will make it easier for other Britannians to accept other Numbers. THAT is what he is betting his everything for. Quote:
Suzaku has never been directly involved in a fight against civilians. So how can he do anything in a place where he is not involved in. He can't be pissed at what he cannot directly see. And the battles he fights aren't massacres at all, because he believes, and rightly so, that the people he is fighting are those who still allow chaos to cover the land of Area 11. And it is this chaos that won't allow peace and progress to occur. P.S. THIS TIME, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, PLEASE LET ME FINISH REPLYING TO EVERYONE BEFORE YOU MAKE ANOTHER ARGUMENT. 1 man against 8 to 10 people is difficult to manage. |
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2007-01-12, 20:57 | Link #193 | ||
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edit: even better example! a Korean trying to rise to prominence in imperial Japan in an effort to make Koreans the equals of the Japanese in citizenship and power. Though even that's not the greatest example, as I understand that prior to the Bushido revival movement that preceded the militarist government of the 1930s Japan was actually quite liberally democratic, if xenophobic. The post-WWI years were apparently years of increasing liberality. But I'm not an expert or even an amateur enthusiast on that topic, so feel free to correct me. Last edited by coefficient; 2007-01-12 at 21:08. |
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2007-01-12, 22:46 | Link #194 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
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What I was trying to get out of that is what the Elevens want are better living conditions and treatment, not necessarily independence. If Suzaku is able to change the empire for them, then the problem is solved. Quote:
Also, the same phrase can be used against you as well. Just because we've seen Britannian thugs around the settlements, it doesn't necessarily mean that all Britannians in the settlement are like that. Quote:
It IS a longshot, that I do agree with you. But that's the only thing that Suzaku can bet on. Quote:
Hypocritical? Zero also makes hypocritical statements himself, you know? What kind of peaceful world can he achieve by bringing even more discord in the fray. He claims himself an ally of justice, yet he does everything for his own selfish reasons. Selfish enough that he is willing to turn the world upside down for it. He is not the only person who suffered in their world. His sister isn't the only one who suffers in their world. How about the JLF lives he sacrificed like pawns in the battlefield? Don't they have family of their own? How about the Britannian soldiers he kill? They also have family and loved ones. How about the civilians who will undoubtedly get caught in his reckless plans? Lulu's sense of justice isn't any far worse than Suzaku's if you ask for hypocrisy, and yet it's only one guy who gets the flak. Quote:
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Another matter? Are you kidding me? Lelouche's actions make the distrust worse, whereas Suzaku is trying to make Britannians trust Elevens. If Britannian distrust of Elevens decrease, discrimination can be lessened. If the discrimination completely disappears, then the feeling of being prisoners disappears. Logical and simple. Quote:
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Just like with my example of the Fil-Am war. I really deplored the horrendous acts committed by American troops on my ancestors, but logically speaking, that was the easiest way of dealing with an insurgency. A smart warrior may be lambasted for his brutality but he's just looking for his own. Quote:
Understand that the Lancelot is Suzaku's PD, as well Euphemia and Cornelia I suppose. He's not in a position to do anything yet. So you can't really blame him. He wasn't given a Geas to make things easier for his climb now, right? Quote:
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The Numbers system is a very practical and logical way of creating administrative areas where assimilation of peoples into the the empire can take place. People will never be fully assimilated as long as they have their silly culture, identity and pride. Once these things are completely crushed, assimilation is made easier. Another logical way to create a united Imperial front. Quote:
Also, once an area is designated as a battlefield, everyone on the area becomes a combatant. It doesn't matter if that is an elderly person, woman, or, child. Why would soldiers make themselves any less effective in combat with things like mercy when mercy and kindness got carefree soldiers killed Vietnam and Afghanistan just because their opponents were women and children. Quote:
This is just another blanket approach to label people as evil. Just like how the American WW2 phrase "The only good Jap is a dead Jap." was coined. That is the kind of thinking that Suzaku wants to defeat. Quote:
Also, if I were in the middle of a battle, I'd shoot soldiers who weren't able to follow orders well. Why the brutal treatment? Because if soldiers don't follow as told, more of Cornelia's troops could've been put in harm's way. It is only logical military thinking. Being in the military isn't a charity organization. You're there to win with as little losses on your side while obliterating the other. Quote:
Even Nina seems to have lightened up to Suzaku as the later episodes show, right? Quote:
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Also, there is a distinct difference between Hitler's armies and Britannia: one of them is out to cleanse the world of "subhumans", while one of them is out to conquer the world and subdue its peoples under the rule of one flag by the strong. Hence, the prospects of making something happen is greater in the Britannian Empire than in Hitler's Reich. Quote:
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Suzaku is better off not being Kira. This rebellion would take longer to suppress if he was. And Suzaku wants to end this conflict as quickly as possible to lessen any civilian casualties caused by said conflict. People can sympathize with Suzaku because his logic isn't half-assed at all. He wants to change the Empire from the inside. Just the opposite of Lulu's logic. Same coin, different sides. Quote:
80% of the vanguard and a division. Which is probably around 15-20% of the entire assault army that attacked Narita, if you take into account the size of the mountain and the sliver of a landslide that occurred. That's just a small sacrifice considering that the major JLF forces where crushed, losing all of Toudou's Burai Kai's along the way. JLF forces scattered and some were captured. Even Lulu got his forces to retreat because he KNEW that they had no chance in a war of attrition against Cornelia's army after it regrouped from the shock of the landslide operation. That is the beauty of Cornelia's army configuration. It still regrouped and defeated their enemy after being surprised. THAT IS A MILITARY VICTORY. Their casualties were a small price to pay for what they accomplished. And get this, that's just a single Imperial Army. It probably isn't even Cornelia's entire army that attacked Narita since she'd need to leave troops behind bases and whatnot. Quote:
Props to Zero for a brilliant attack but even he retreated because he knew that his army would get decimated if they pressed on. It was only because of C.C. that the insurgency leader even escaped. This is no disaster by any means. Only pessimists will say so, or, people trying to make an argument for Zero's sake when he clearly lost to Cornelia's army by retreating while using JLF soldiers as human shields and pawns in his game of battlefield chess with his half-sister. Quote:
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Basically, Suzaku is fighting the Empire's ideals by being its antithesis, while Lelouch is fighting the Empire's ideals by using the Empire's own ideals against it. Quote:
But when that happens, why is it exactly that the Empire will disappear? The Empire will evolve and change for the better, not disappear. That is what Suzaku is aiming for. Just because the Empire becomes less bloodthirsty doesn't mean that it'll suddenly collapse. That's just flawed thinking. P.S. I'm NOT finished yet. Please let me finish replying. Last edited by Nanaya; 2007-01-12 at 23:38. |
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2007-01-12, 23:20 | Link #195 | |||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
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As times change, people do to. To say that people don't change is a prejudiced idea that allows misunderstanding and killing to occur not only in the Geass world, but also in our real world as well. Quote:
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Just because the path to one's goal seem hard to take and almost closed, does that mean that a person should give up and let the world descend into hell. I, for one, do not have any love for the defeatist idea that you spurt out. Quote:
That's the point of the entire series: Two people wanting to effect change but with two completely opposite and different methods. It can be obtained from watching the series that the governor-generals hold complete autonomy for administrating their areas by Clovis' approach of allowing zaibatsus to remain. At the very least, Suzaku can influence good government for the Elevens through Euphemia and Cornelia (if he climbs enough) even if the two never become Empresses. Quote:
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I guess you haven't watched the aftermath as well, right? The JLF main forces were routed and many were captured. Toudou lost all his Burai Kais. The Order was forced to retreat BECAUSE they couldn't possibly win against Cornelia's army once it regrouped after the initial shock the landslide caused. Did you even understand what Lulu was aiming for? It wasn't the military annihilation of the Imperial Army because he lacked the capacity to do so. He was aiming for the head of the army, Governor-General Cornelia. If he took Cornelia's head, then I could say that the Order and the JLF would've won due to the chaos Cornelia's demise could cause to her troops. But she wasn't taken thanks to Suzaku, which ultimately led to the military victory that I explained up a post. It was even bluntly said that they won the battle militarily in the Britannian meeting, while the Kyoto people said that they lost heavily. Quote:
In their system, noble families and royal successors still exist. If even a people like the Ashfords and Euphemia exist, then the possibility of moderates existing in high positions of said military dictatorship is quite high. Also, I might add that while it seems that the Emperor has full sovereignty over the Empire, you could obtain from the series itself that each and every area are autonomously controlled and administrated by their respective governor-generals. If change can be achieved for each region slowly while Suzaku keeps proving his worth not only to Cornelia and Euphemia, but to all Britannian royalty, then his dreams of achieving what seemed to be a far off goal isn't as pathetic as people would think. P.S. I'm finished with my replies. Even added the RECENT reply even after pleading to NOT reply before I was completely finished. Thanks to those who did allow me to finish first. Last edited by Nanaya; 2007-01-12 at 23:44. |
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2007-01-12, 23:26 | Link #196 |
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Wow just wow, only a few people actually understand the things behind some of the characters.
Let's also not forget that the Lancelot was constructed under the 2nd Imperial Prince. Yet, the Prince ALLOWED a number, whose not even suppose to pilot a KF, to pilot it despite the opposition of most of the Britannian officers. As Euphie's general stated, not even they can shove Suzuka off the board. When Cornelia first arrived she promoted Suzuka to Warrent Officer. And now he stands for another promotion. I would say he is literally a hero for HB's as it shows them that even they can rise to the top in the Britannian Empire. Cornelia stated firmly that she intends to win without numbers but we can see now that has changed. So yes he is changing the system and how people view HB's. Since Euphie shares his views she too will fight for change. I'm surprised that people critize Suzkua for killing japanese soldiers, who are otherwise enemy combatants, while no one says a peep about Lelouch mudering japanese soldiers (Who otherwise are not his enemy) and killing civilians. Last edited by ImperialKnight; 2007-01-12 at 23:40. |
2007-01-13, 00:12 | Link #197 | |||||
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Do you trust your dog (that he is loyal) ? Do you trust your machine (that it is working) ? Do you trust your money (that it can buy food) ? Then do you think they are equal to you ? Quote:
Cornelia is not as powerful as you think. Moreover, if she knows about that, what she does first is to prevent Euphie, even by arresting and bringing her to a very far place. Quote:
To my family and friends, I never consider whether they are useful or not. In my job, I still “use” those people who I don’t love, respect or trust, just because I think they are “useful” in some way. We cooperate because of our benefits, but if they intend to harm me, I won’t be kind to them. In Britanians’ mind, Suzaku is just like, no, even lower than these people to me, so if he goes against their system, *bang bang bang* he is dead Quote:
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OK. As you say so… If you want to change the Nazis from inside, you will joined their army ? As a solder, you will try not to harm civilians, but (1) just killing the French, British, Russian, American… solders, who you think still allow chaos to cover the land of its invaded countries ? and (2) “not directly” but just clear the path for the army to kill civilians as you have defeated all the resisters (if you think they aren’t massacres, remember ep 1, 2, 3) And you believe you are as white and pure as an angel ? You are not angry at your Nazis and not trying to prevent those massacres at all but you still be able to critize those resistance troops who kill your solders and your lords ? If you attack them, and they have to use some method to counterattack which will involve innocent civilians -yes they will feel regretful, and the victims can critize them- but do you have the right to be angry with them ? If you think peace is that much important, tell your Gov and ppl to surrender whenever another country wants to invade your own. And if the invaders feel like killing your people, prevent them from resisting. And if they still resist, kill them as they bring chaos to that peaceful colony. Last edited by antheonoileo; 2007-01-13 at 01:00. Reason: hightlight my key point |
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2007-01-13, 00:26 | Link #198 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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1) The state, legally if not ideologically, runs on a strictly hereditary basis; that said, neither Corelia nor Euhpemia are the heirs apparent. We don't know much about Britannian inheritance law, but Cornelia is the second princess, so she's likely not the crown princess. Even if the crown ran under equal primogeniture, which traditionally in England it did not (though women could inherit in the absence of any male contenders) she'd have to somehow deal with the problem of the people ahead of her in the line of succession. Now, she can either talk them into giving up their claim (yeah right) or she can arrange an "accident". Those are the only two options in this case. 2) The second possibility is that Big Daddy Britannia himself names an heir, which I think is altogether more likely as from the way Lulu speaks it seems like it's a tradition for the heirs to infight and for the strongest to claim dominance. Now we all know what drives his thought - equality is evil, go evolution, yadda yadda. In this case Euphie or a converted-Corny haven't a chance in hell of getting named to the throne, unless they can manage to trick the old guy into naming them, which I doubt because he's a smart guy. He's Lulu's dad, after all. In this case the only way to get to power is to cut their way to the top and to play his game. Quote:
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2007-01-13, 00:30 | Link #199 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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The main reason people don't say much about Lelouch killing people is because he doesn't deny it. Suzaku, on the other hand, denounces injustice yet goes around killing people who probably have families and loved ones, though certainly less than Lelouch so far, but his attitude is certainly enough to piss a lot of other people off.
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2007-01-13, 00:36 | Link #200 | |
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