View Full Version : Syosetsuka ni Narou Discussion Thread
^Gang of Yuusha was great
C'mon I need true adventure novels
Not burdened by heroines
But the MC is not hetare, just don't fancy restricting relationship
^So it's like "Ore no Genjitsu wa Ren'ai Game?? ka to Omottara Inochigake no Game datta" ?
Need recommendation :
1. MC at A~C Rank Adventurer
2. MC not Demon King Level of Power
3. Not harem but MC snusnus random mobs
read One Piece lmao
^There must be snusnu so shounen stuffs don't count
Also preferably without world ending scenario
I mean, from our perspective, even fighting against wyvern or horde of monsters are very fun
Stop inflating it to fricking Demon King, Demon God, bullshit
Well, you can have it for the final arc, but shit man...
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-01, 21:37
James Bond archetype basically. Nothing wrong with that though personally I prefer the MC to have relationships... but when 99% are template it's hard to get enthusiastic...
^I want true adventure tho
Isekai WN's relationship is crap anyway
MC is so naive so the 1st girl that appears will become the main heroine and stays that way till the end
Boring af
And that heroine will dictate MC's activity from then on
Usually the MC is non-action, but to protect the heroine he will kill even Gods
I'm sick of that, give me true adventure
You know, like early Berserk before Guts brought along a family including retarded girl and fricking brat
Witch loli is welcome tho :heh:
^I want true adventure tho
Isekai WN's relationship is crap anyway
MC is so naive so the 1st girl that appears will become the main heroine and stays that way till the end
Boring af
And that heroine will dictate MC's activity from then on
Usually the MC is non-action, but to protect the heroine he will kill even Gods
I'm sick of that, give me true adventure
You know, like early Berserk before Guts brought along a family including retarded girl and fricking brat
Witch loli is welcome tho :heh:
Not in Narou or at least until Narou change themselves?
Maybe Narou should give a room for foreign writers to write a WN from their side.
Clearly, we can't expect anything from japanese writers their mindset are too narrow minded to create an actual story.
^I like The Witcher
But there are templates that I like in Japanese stories
Adventurer and Skill System are really entertaining if done well
100 White Gold
I know this is mostly nitpicking but.... Unless explicitly stated otherwise, 白金 is platinum, not white gold...
Not in Narou or at least until Narou change themselves?
Maybe Narou should give a room for foreign writers to write a WN from their side.
Clearly, we can't expect anything from japanese writers their mindset are too narrow minded to create an actual story.
There's no region lock or anything like that though, just a language barrier. As a matter of fact, the author of kujibiki tokushou is one of the people that's gotten published (a lot of their narou works too) and doesn't live in Japan.
The question of quality is more due to the medium of web novels in general. Actual good stuff is bound to be rare and far in between due to little to no polishing.
^Naah, it's White Gold
Btw, I rechecked my "adventurer" WNs and lo and behold
None of them are pure adventurers (maybe only Slave Harem? Wow, that's actually awesome)
Most of them are just treating it as stepping stone before dealing with bigger threats (e.g. killing Demon King)
Or just to create wow factor by having the MC jumps from E -> S Rank after awakening cheat
Something good would be to see the protagonist develop physically and not remain like a 170cm stick
On the other hand I am seeing again how the novels return with the "black hair and eyes"
I wonder if the Japanese really believe that the color of their brown eyes are black
Not to mention the hair thing
^I don't think that will have impact on the story too much
To be perfectly fair, official documents accept black as an eye colour even if black eyes technically don't actually exist.
^^
It is a more personal problem, when more than 90% of the novels that I read the protagonist maintains the physical of a common person and throughout the novel
despite being novels with action simply does not taste good or me.
^
Omitting the documents, it's always mentioned by other characters that the color of the MC are like the color of the night, an abyss or literally black, black eyes do exist but it is a rare mutation not a racial trait, the Asian eyes trait it's a darker brown (iirc)
Would be good a combination of heterochromia and aninsocoria(?)
^For male MC, they are trying to make his appearance as average as possible
I literally never read a WN where a heroine fell for MC because of his facial or physical features
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-02, 05:05
^I want true adventure tho
Just to be clear, by "James Bond archetype" in this context, I meant MC who is strong and confident (alpha male) with regards to women (and in general) but any relationships are just within the character arc.
Isekai WN's relationship is crap anyway
MC is so naive so the 1st girl that appears will become the main heroine and stays that way till the end
Boring af
And that heroine will dictate MC's activity from then on
Usually the MC is non-action, but to protect the heroine he will kill even Gods
I'm sick of that, give me true adventure
You know, like early Berserk before Guts brought along a family including retarded girl and fricking brat
Witch loli is welcome tho :heh:
I had this idea after my previous post...
Setting: fantasy world with multiple gods where belief in gods increase their power. MC is "chosen one" (strong blessings) of the Goddess of Fertility who recently awoke after very long sleep (due to previous battle) and has almost zero followers alive now. So to increase followers as quickly as possible, MC goes around doing good deeds but instead of being paid with money those he saves must convert to believers in Goddess of Fertility and/or give him women to impregnate. Kids of MC have high probability of having divine protection of Goddess of Fertility, resulting in local crops growing better, so is very good deal for farming villagers.
^That's Nocturne stuff ��
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-02, 06:20
Depends upon the author and what scenes are actually written/shown and in what detail, surely.
ぼくはいない (https://novel18.syosetu.com/n5759fz/) is a new Nocturne novel that I found quite enjoyable. Bullied high schooler discovers he has the power to become The Invisible Man, and decides to use it to take revenge on the female classmate who tormented him, but things don't go quite as planned. Fairly high ratio of plot over ero, strangely enough.
The first arc just finished, I believe, but I doubt the author can keep up this incredible pace of 300 pages in a single month.
Thanks for sharing. Meia best girl :)
Avrorrange
2020-03-02, 07:18
There were mainly two reasons for nobility losing power:
- 1st: the system getting outdated Good luck running elections in France every 4 years when the paper is expensive, literally no-one can read (and care for anything more than what this years crop yealds will be) and going from one end to the other takes half a year. Democracy is good if you have the technology and education to back it, but the first one wasn't present and the second one wasn't something the countries could afford (they needed all the people working the field, not going to school to learn something that won't help them with working the fields).
- 2nd: Merchants getting strong and wanting to hold much more power. If I were to be cynical, I would say, that the later system is just nobles getting renamed to merchants (businessmen) . And yeah, not like their children inherit their titles (money), right?Agree, but I would dare say that our current masters are more toned down compared to what the nobles of old could have done.
Well, they could, but why would they damage their own property? I would imagine most nobles would even defend their subjects from other nobles even if they thought of them as dirty imbeciles (because they are their dirty imbeciles). Even for an extreme example of seeing them as animals, a person today could get away with murdering a dog, but I don't see hundreds of people going around killing any dog they see (or even stealing from the dogs). Just being able to get away with it doesn't really mean it happens often enough to be a real problem (or that it has no non-legal reprecussions).Because some nobles are just that bad. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. In an era where the nobility still formed the elite of the military, peasants stood no chance when they try to revolt against them.
The ones most opposed and least taxed were actually the clergy (and they had maybe more income and lands than the nobles). That it was poorly run might be true, but that happens once in a time in any system (hell, it was run even worse after the revolution).
With very good reasons too. The church actually ran the social services in France. When the Republic executed the priests and confiscated church land, peasants were left poorer than before. A lot of them actually ended up revolting against the Republic in favor of the monarchy because of this. Nonetheless, the church at the very least had a good reason for maintaining control of this wealth. The aristocracy on the other hand was becoming more and more redundant due to it's role in the military being easily replaceable by men who rose from the ranks.
Buying something that just isn't there is hard. It's not like they had such a great transportation system and their neighbors weren't much better off.The Republic actually ended up solving a lot of the problems by importing grain from the US and from Italy. There were also a lot of hoarders that sold grain at inflated prices as well.
Said German officers being also mostly aristocrats seems to elude you though. Not even speaking about the original Prussian army which was lead only by aristocrats. And not like we have seen inept armies that weren't lead by aristocrats (Italy WW2, Russia at the beginning of WW2).The Germans were an exception rather than the rule because of how militaristic they were. In other places, such as in Britain, the poor leadership by unqualified aristocratic officers(such as the charge of light brigade) eventually led to a more meritocratic system. The problem with WW2 Italy and Soviet Russia were similar to that of WW1 Russia--they all promoted based upon loyalty and connections.
^Nope, it's in EVERY isekai novels
Any country would be very happy to recruit S-Rankers
Of course some conservative nobles still look down on those upstart nobles that rise from merchant or adventurer
But there are other factions that accept them
Once again, nobles are not monolith
Again, it strongly depends on what isekai novel you are reading. In a lot of the isekai novels I read, only the heroes/Maou/gods could be considered real city levelers. Most S class lived like people from Fairy Tail in the sense that they were seen as over-glorified mercenaries rather than strategic weapons.
It would be interesting to read a novel like "To Be a Power in the Shadows" or "I'm the Evil Lord of an Intergalactic Empire"
But where the MC is conscious and his actions are not a misunderstanding but a fact (without being a eunuch) .
With the above, there are really no protagonists who do good (actively and willingly, not only do good deeds),
They only do this when they are affected in some way, they have resources to spare or providence (author) appears.
Reading "I'm the Evil Lord of an Intergalactic Empire", I tend to think what it would be like to remove all the misunderstandings and excessive comedy
And create a character that is really affected by what he suffered and now seeks a good for himself and the rest.
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-02, 17:57
^ How about the MC from Death Mage?
^^Tower of Karma
Btw, I found that novel
The one where the TS MC got gangraped by the whole town
破戒眼のユーリ ～最強師弟の不思議な関係～
It got revised
The gangrape was changed into murder by a girl whose bf got killed by MC because he tried to rape her
^^I don't think, he doesn't do it proactively (beyond his small world where he is one of the highest authorities), it's when his side is affected in some way when he takes action.
The ghouls would not have been saved if it were not for "luck"
The giants would not have been saved if it wasn't for the zombies
The human villages would not have been saved if it were not for "luck"
The Scylla ... for "luck"
The arachne ...
The orcs..
T...
LOL
^I didn't finish reading it, I just remember that the MC was looking for revenge above all
erneiz_hyde
2020-03-02, 19:38
It got revised
The gangrape was changed into murder by a girl whose bf got killed by MC because he tried to rape her
The girl's boyfriend died because he lost all vitality raping the MC too much. And, so you mean instead of the girl throwing the MC out to street naked (triggering the destruction of the town because everyone lost their mind trying to rape MC), she killed the MC instead? But, that event served as her getting her ridiculous magic right? Because she grows stronger every time she dies and all the townsfolk raped her to death hundreds of time over a couple of weeks (and all the townspeople eventually died from losing too much vitality). And that's also the reason she has a phobia against men, even towards the oji-san she eventually loves. How did that part change?
Avrorrange
2020-03-02, 19:54
^For male MC, they are trying to make his appearance as average as possible
I literally never read a WN where a heroine fell for MC because of his facial or physical features
This is the exact opposite in Chinese isekai novels. In Chinese isekai novels, the trend is to make MCs into ikemens. Even if they were originally ugly, they are gonna be beautiful when they get reincarnated.There’s this one isekai novel I’ve read where the MC is physically useless but became successful anyway because he’s so beautiful that he managed to con powerful women into joining his harem.That and because he’s a ‘genius’.
In China,you almost never get any readers if your MC isn’t beautiful,cunning and ruthless from the beginning.
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-02, 20:32
"Pervert Healer" was ikemen IIRC
aka 異世界の迷宮都市で治癒魔法使いやってます
The girl's boyfriend died because he lost all vitality raping the MC too much. And, so you mean instead of the girl throwing the MC out to street naked (triggering the destruction of the town because everyone lost their mind trying to rape MC), she killed the MC instead? But, that event served as her getting her ridiculous magic right? Because she grows stronger every time she dies and all the townsfolk raped her to death hundreds of time over a couple of weeks (and all the townspeople eventually died from losing too much vitality). And that's also the reason she has a phobia against men, even towards the oji-san she eventually loves. How did that part change?
The boyfriend tried to rape MC
But this time MC killed him
The MC then foolishly returned his belongings to his gf while wearing his coat
Then she killed and buried MC
She resurrected in the ground but died again coz buried, repeat ad infinitum
Somehow a wyvern destroyed that city and the oji-san found her thinking she's a survivor
She doesn't have as much phobia now
This is the exact opposite in Chinese isekai novels. In Chinese isekai novels, the trend is to make MCs into ikemens. Even if they were originally ugly, they are gonna be beautiful when they get reincarnated.There’s this one isekai novel I’ve read where the MC is physically useless but became successful anyway because he’s so beautiful that he managed to con powerful women into joining his harem.That and because he’s a ‘genius’.
In China,you almost never get any readers if your MC isn’t beautiful,cunning and ruthless from the beginning.
Yea, cultivation MCs are always perfect in everyway
EXCEPT PERSONALITY COZ THEY ARE AS ARROGANT AS THEIR ENEMIES
Freaking assholes kept picking fight with stronger sects
(but always win in the end coz they are the MCs)
erneiz_hyde
2020-03-02, 23:17
Does Yuuri's change has anything to do with the author's latest work? The one where the MC who was a member in the hero's party reincarnates as the hero's daughter. I've heard Yuuri appeared again in there.
^Seems so, also connected to the half dragon girl one
Haven't read tho so can't say anything
Avrorrange
2020-03-02, 23:59
The boyfriend tried to rape MC
But this time MC killed him
The MC then foolishly returned his belongings to his gf while wearing his coat
Then she killed and buried MC
She resurrected in the ground but died again coz buried, repeat ad infinitum
Somehow a wyvern destroyed that city and the oji-san found her thinking she's a survivor
She doesn't have as much phobia now
Yea, cultivation MCs are always perfect in everyway
EXCEPT PERSONALITY COZ THEY ARE AS ARROGANT AS THEIR ENEMIES
Freaking assholes kept picking fight with stronger sects
(but always win in the end coz they are the MCs)I don’t read xianxia novels.I genuinely don’t understand them despite being able to read the language on a native level.
I was talking about Chinese isekai novels where the MC gets ISOTed to a western fantasy setting. Chinese fans will drop the novel if A)MC is not an ikemen, B)MC is not cunning and ruthless,C)MC intends to serve under a ruler instead of carve out his own country or become a god. This is because isekai novels are seen as a type of escapism where the reader thinks they are the MC. The reader wants to be ikemen. Not being OP is actually alright as long as the MC is cunning and guile.
We should actually update the three questions to six questions instead:
1.Is the MC OP?
2.Is it a harem?
3.Is there Snusnu?
4.Is the MC a ikemen?
5.Is the MC cunning and ruthless?
6.Is the MC gonna rebel and start his own state/become a god?
I don’t read xianxia novels.I genuinely don’t understand them despite being able to read the language on a native level.
I was talking about Chinese isekai novels where the MC gets ISOTed to a western fantasy setting. Chinese fans will drop the novel if A)MC is not an ikemen, B)MC is not cunning and ruthless,C)MC intends to serve under a ruler instead of carve out his own country or become a god. This is because isekai novels are seen as a type of escapism where the reader thinks they are the MC. The reader wants to be ikemen. Not being OP is actually alright as long as the MC is cunning and guile.
Same thing with xianxia/wuxia
Anything Chinese with Male MC (sometimes Female MC too) with growth system will go that way (few exceptions like Spirit Mountain)
The MC is obligated to :
- Torture and Kill anyone who slights him in the slightest
- Not bow to anyone even God
- Become God
Ikemen is auto after level up a bit
We should actually update the three questions to six questions instead:
1.Is the MC OP?
2.Is it a harem?
3.Is there Snusnu?
4.Is the MC a ikemen?
5.Is the MC cunning and ruthless?
6.Is the MC gonna rebel and start his own state/become a god?
Possible
Ruki0089
2020-03-03, 01:12
7. Is this incest.
Put this on the list:heh:
Already on the subject, before I stopped reading cn novels I had not read any with comedy, but if the adaptations (manhua) of some is like the ones shown, it leaves me an indescribable feeling in a bad way.
Avrorrange
2020-03-03, 03:02
7. Is this incest.
Put this on the list:heh:
Does it actually in Narou or Nocturne novels? It doesn’t happen in China because it’s illegal.
^I'm pretty sure murder is illegal too. :heh:
Avrorrange
2020-03-03, 03:12
^I'm pretty sure murder is illegal too. :heh:
Not murder.Murder is acceptable. There are Chinese webnovels where the Chinese created what is essentially the Chinese version of the Nazi Empire.
Tenzen12
2020-03-03, 04:46
Proven wrong
I didn't say "take over nation" but "above the law"
a) Army and nobility have their own forces
-Nobody said they don't
-But a baron force and a duke force is completely different
-Duke might have some S-Class equivalents, but lower nobles do not
b) guild deals with own troublemakers, S rank included.
-Then I asked you to give me some titles that depict that
-But you just gave random titles, so you lied
And don't give me shit like "It's not logical for them to go rogue"
It's like saying GOD is real in Isekai so there must be no evil people and suffering
That's not the case, isn't it?
a) You literally said "It never happened, you lie" and dismissed my examples of nobles and army having own powerhouses afterwards. If you meant only half of post is "lie" then you should specify which.
And it's obvious that when we talk about nobility and army in this context we are not talking about small landowner. duh.
b)That was always conjecture and I explicitly said so in follow up post. In first place S rank not wrecking havoc in novels already proves being S rank adventurer isn't enough to put them above law. Well either that or screning process for promotion are good enough to not let any bad apples get the rank in first place.
^Your fault to think nobles are one and the same
Chinese ≠ Coronavirus, okay?
b) More like authors just don't write that plot point :heh:
A noble can rape S-Rank's wife unknowingly or something, right? :heh:
^^
Death is PG-13, Depiction of brutal death is R-rated
Incest theme is already R-rated, vivid depiction would be straight ban :heh:
Avrorrange
2020-03-03, 07:49
^Your fault to think nobles are one and the same
Chinese ≠ Coronavirus, okay?
b) More like authors just don't write that plot point :heh:
A noble can rape S-Rank's wife unknowingly or something, right? :heh:
^^
Death is PG-13, Depiction of brutal death is R-rated
Incest theme is already R-rated, vivid depiction would be straight ban :heh:
Is incest acceptable in nocturne?
Tenzen12
2020-03-03, 08:01
^Your fault to think nobles are one and the same
Chinese ≠ Coronavirus, okay?
b) More like authors just don't write that plot point :heh:
A noble can rape S-Rank's wife unknowingly or something, right? :heh:
I never thought so, I just assumed we are on same page so I didn't bother specify. It's like if I said" scientist argue about the dark matter" and you countered with "microbiologists doesn't, you are wrong". This is just ill willed sophistry on your side.
b) S rank in general are part of privileged caste not unsimiliar to nobles (high ranking nobles if you really wanna be insistent on exact terminology), even if their privileged and responsibilities differ. S rank cannot arbitralily hurt nobles and nobles cannot arbitrarily hurt S rankers.
It's like if I said" scientist argue about the dark matter" and you countered with "microbiologists doesn't, you are wrong".
This is bullshit
b) S rank in general are part of privileged caste not unsimiliar to nobles (high ranking nobles if you really wanna be insistent on exact terminology), even if their privileged and responsibilities differ. S rank cannot arbitralily hurt nobles and nobles cannot arbitrarily hurt S rankers.
Arbitrarily my butt
We are talking about "what-if" situation here
What if S-Ranker went rogue
"Normally" doesn't happen doesn't mean it will never happen
The reason can be anything, his friend's cousin's nephew got raped or accidentally killed and such
In the first place, we know nobles are assassinating each other lmao
Ruki0089
2020-03-03, 08:45
Does it actually in Narou or Nocturne novels? It doesn’t happen in China because it’s illegal.
Well, Incest exist in Narou and Nocturnes. So, we can say it's very acceptable. Or I should say, IT must accepted!:heh:
CN illegal? Dude, you should search deeper like me and shock just like me.
CN is more extreme when it come to incest novel.
Son-con, These girls dangerous, Yandere disease tendency or etc.
*Shiver
Tenzen12
2020-03-03, 08:52
This is bullshit
No it's not. You are just being ass about it.
Arbitrarily my butt
We are talking about "what-if" situation here
What if S-Ranker went rogue
"Normally" doesn't happen doesn't mean it will never happen
The reason can be anything, his friend's cousin's nephew got raped or accidentally killed and such
In the first place, we know nobles are assassinating each other lmao
Point is if S rankers are above law or not (and if there are means to stop them). Not whether they can hypothetically commit crimes. Anybody (me included) can.
Nobles killing each other is actually same thing. Why do you think they always hire shady assassins and use ploys? It's to hide from law and retribution.
^
That's why I asked for the examples in some novels
You didn't give any, only presented hypothetical cases
(Like the military in Kanna is strong so nobody is making troubles)
Only Rinvelt gave an example in Death Mage
and he prove that an S-Ranker did massacre royalties without any repercussions
Ruki0089
2020-03-03, 09:09
Wow, I just noticed Ero Tora engaged in arguments:heh:
^If this were Isekai, I'd fireball him
But since it isn't, words is the way to go
Now that I think of it, I'm surprised gun deaths in the US is not 10x higher lmao :heh:
I found multiple novels where:
The MC "self-expelled by his own individual will" from [incert anything from which one can be expelled (lol)] and the main cause is the childhood friend (woman) who treats him as a slave
I am not aware of the novels published lately but
Was there any recent one that started another wave of copy-paste?
Usually expelled coz deemed useless to the party (how did he enter in the first place?) but later revealed to be very important but unnoticed
Btw, regarding Reincarnation MCs
Is there anyone who is not afraid of death and anything anymore?
Coz they think they will just reincarnate again after dying next time
Avrorrange
2020-03-04, 05:52
Has anyone read this? (https://ncode.syosetu.com/n2501fv/)
Chinese translators are translating it.It is apparently getting a LN.
lokoxDZz
2020-03-04, 08:51
Not murder.Murder is acceptable. There are Chinese webnovels where the Chinese created what is essentially the Chinese version of the Nazi Empire.
Only if chinese are the good guys, make chinese be slightly bad and they will come at you
Actually heard that several words like "murder" are also banned but money talk too strong i guess
Avrorrange
2020-03-04, 10:14
Only if chinese are the good guys, make chinese be slightly bad and they will come at you
Actually heard that several words like "murder" are also banned but money talk too strong i guess
That depends on what you mean by ‘good guys’. In the Chinese novels I read in the past,those Chinese ‘Nazi Empires’ are literally allied with Nazi Germany......Some of them are actually about MCs being reincarnated as Germans and helping the Nazis win......MCs are utter scum.
dragon1412
2020-03-04, 10:17
Usually expelled coz deemed useless to the party (how did he enter in the first place?) but later revealed to be very important but unnoticed
Btw, regarding Reincarnation MCs
Is there anyone who is not afraid of death and anything anymore?
Coz they think they will just reincarnate again after dying next time
Depend on how it's done i guess, I mean, a good "useless to the party but actually important trope" can really improve the story, for example, a weak MC contribute tactically can easily fall into this trope and still done well. I'd love a story where MC is kicked out because he is actually weak but smart and strategic enough that either he found a new team that appreciate his talents or straight up creating a new team with newbies and guide them to victory through tactics. This trope to me seem way more better suited for strategically aligned MC.
EDIT: My first rant, I see a lot of novels where MC proclaimed about getting a kingdom and become kings, but I don't get why people want this trope. I mean, building a kingdom and keeping it running is actual hard work, and not to mention the whole assassinations and smeared along the way. And some of the times where i read kingdom building novels the entire foundation is just flawed. Assuming MC actually are powerful, Freedom life is way better. And that is not mentioning how we rarely see nature screw them over, I mean, nature is one of the worst adversary to any kingdom that is not at our level of civilization. I only seen some epidemics that MC of course know about and have way to prevent it, but never full blown crushing disaster such as flood, locusts, drought,... on MC side.
^
Well, coz most people see being a King is the pinnacle of achievement
So MC becoming a king at the end of their adventure is usual goal
But the author made a mistake in the pacing so the MC became king earlier than planned
The novel must be continued but in the original plan was "Then he became king and live happily ever after" so the rest is a mess
As for those intended for kingdom building from the start, they just wanna try becoming a king
After a while, feeling a pain in the ass, so the story became rough
Then the updates just stopped altogether
With that, novels with "freedom" should be more available
But somehow true adventure novels are very rare
Usually the MC just make base somewhere and collecting harem
Speaking about making a base (or being a base) I can only recommend "Blue Core" from Royal Road (as I have been reading lots of novels from there lately). It's a pretty nice dungeon (self) building novel with good humor and pacing. Interestingly enough the power balance has not yet been broken too even though the MC is practically guaranteed to become massively OP somewhere in the future (likely at the end of the series though).
RR is pretty interesting though. Many of the popular novels have good humor etc. but the authors tend to try too hard to be original. Meaning that there are oftentimes no decent paybacks (MC getting just always thrashed and stumped). Also, the overal quality is rather low. For some reason there also seems to be pretty strong anti-harem culture... I guess there are more US guys on RR with their overgrown feminism (it's a fantasy for god's sake, you don't mind murder everywhere so why care for such a minor thing).
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-04, 17:04
Hmm, I see n2933fj has gotten manga adaptation.
英雄王、武を極めるため転生す ～そして、世界最強の見習い騎士♀～
Eiyuu-ou, bu o Kiwameru tame tensei su - Soshite, Sekai Saikyou no Minarai Kishi ♀~
Here's intro from manga translators:
King Inglis, who lived for his country and people, strongly hopes that in his next life, "I want to further temper my skills as a knight." The wish is heard by the goddess who reincarnates the king into the far future but in the form of a cute girl! Moreover, it is declared at the age of 6 that she is incapable of being a knight despite coming from a line of knights.
I've read the 3 manga raw chapters that are out. Seems interesting but has anyone read the WN/LN?
MC grows up well:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81uModIUiBL.jpg
Interesting that she uses a rapier. Not a bad choice.
Avrorrange
2020-03-04, 17:32
^
Well, coz most people see being a King is the pinnacle of achievement
So MC becoming a king at the end of their adventure is usual goal
But the author made a mistake in the pacing so the MC became king earlier than planned
The novel must be continued but in the original plan was "Then he became king and live happily ever after" so the rest is a mess
As for those intended for kingdom building from the start, they just wanna try becoming a king
After a while, feeling a pain in the ass, so the story became rough
Then the updates just stopped altogether
With that, novels with "freedom" should be more available
But somehow true adventure novels are very rare
Usually the MC just make base somewhere and collecting harem
Unless you are a Chinese mc where being cunning and ruthless is the norm.....In such novels,first 25-33% of the novel generally consists of adventuring, the rest consists of the MC leading the armies of his kingdom. Actual governance of the kingdom is generally delegated to the MC’s subordinates. The MC mainly sets out policies.
^
Army = 1 man musou
Policy = Copyright Infringement
^^
If it's Yuri, put it in the trash
Btw, the soul of "rooting for the underdog" has completely gone in narou, just Saikyou asshole again and again
dragon1412
2020-03-05, 06:54
^
Army = 1 man musou
Policy = Copyright Infringement
^^
If it's Yuri, put it in the trash
Btw, the soul of "rooting for the underdog" has completely gone in narou, just Saikyou asshole again and again
underdog type still exist a lot in LN form and manga though, but yeah, in narou it is mostly just OP main. I do remember some underdog, but those are novels that are long ago
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 06:57
^
Army = 1 man musou
Policy = Copyright Infringement
^^
If it's Yuri, put it in the trash
Btw, the soul of "rooting for the underdog" has completely gone in narou, just Saikyou asshole again and again
No, they have actual battles consisting of thousands of soldiers on each side.MCs are op,but they too will die if they try to fight the entire enemy army plus their champions solo.
As for policy,I would say that a lot of policies in Chinese novels are generally more sound and mature than the Japanese ones. For example, one of the first policies set up by the twins in No Game No Life in response to an empty treasury was to issue bonds(without specifying how they do that), but the Chinese authors in general often try to find ways to collect taxes from the nobles first, then set up a bank before setting up bonds when the economy’s mature—all of which takes years to implement.No one is gonna buy bonds if your country’s economy is in shambles and your trust rating is D.They go into a lot of detail in regards to how they implement their policies and how people try to resist them.
No, they have actual battles consisting of thousands of soldiers on each side.MCs are op,but they too will die if they try to fight the entire enemy army plus their champions solo.
An immortal on nascent stage from certain mountain can swipe his hand and 100.000 soldiers will die in an instant
the Chinese authors in general often try to find ways to collect taxes from the nobles first, then set up a bank before setting up bonds when the economy’s mature—all of which takes years to implement.No one is gonna buy bonds if your country’s economy is in shambles and your trust rating is D.They go into a lot of detail in regards to how they implement their policies and how people try to resist them.
In general?
I literally never found CN novels with those policies tho
Please enlighten me
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 07:54
An immortal on nascent stage from certain mountain can swipe his hand and 100.000 soldiers will die in an instant
In proper Chinese Western Isekai novels, MC are generally just demigods at best.They can fight like several thousand peoples solo, but if the enemy champion(who might be another demigod) fights him with 100,000 people at his back, then he is f#$ked.It’s endgame where they have somehow become gods that they can do what you propose.In a number of isekai novels I have read, the power level an mc reaches is Dumbledore/Voldemort level at best.They are OP,but not absolutely broken.
In general?
I literally never found CN novels with those policies tho
Please enlighten me
These are pretty good:
https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-defeated-dragon/
https://book.qidian.com/info/1005843719
https://book.qidian.com/info/1011223144
https://book.qidian.com/info/1011132929
Two of them borrowed the settings of other fantasy settings and are more like alternate universes of Warcraft and Warhammer.They are written in the style of the Evil Lord of the Galactic Universe except the MCs aren’t idiots and that they ultimately do mean good for the people at large(although expect no mercy if you slight them in any way).For the works with borrowed settings, they are more like Otomegee Sakai Wa mob, but with a setting that’s widely known, so that people can talk about the feasibility of what the MC’s planning to do(although the authors seriously don’t give a f#$k about copyright infringement).
^Qidian? Can't read chinese bro
Might try The Defeated Dragon, the low stars reviews are funny :heh:
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 08:19
^Qidian? Can't read chinese bro
Might try The Defeated Dragon, the low stars reviews are funny :heh:
That’s why you don’t know the good stuff lol.Don’t you use machine translation btw?
^Other raw readers must've known truly good ones and have them translated someway, right?
Like some translations started after I made threads about them
Btw, anyone finds it odd that Isekai-ed MCs know unusual information?
-Like how to make soap
-Profitable plants
-Pre-modern machinery
-Food/ingredient stuffs
Are normal people (those not preparing to be isekai-ed) normally know these things?
Endscape
2020-03-05, 08:51
Btw, anyone finds it odd that Isekai-ed MCs know unusual information?
-Like how to make soap
-Profitable plants
-Pre-modern machinery
-Food/ingredient stuffs
Are normal people (those not preparing to be isekai-ed) normally know these things?
Usually it's explained via profession or hobby. Like MC used to do a lot of arts and craft stuff so they know how to make soap and shampoo like in Honzuki, or MC is an engineer like in Release the Witch.
^Other raw readers must've known truly good ones and have them translated someway, right?
Like some translations started after I made threads about them
Btw, anyone finds it odd that Isekai-ed MCs know unusual information?
-Like how to make soap
-Profitable plants
-Pre-modern machinery
-Food/ingredient stuffs
Are normal people (those not preparing to be isekai-ed) normally know these things?
Yep. That's a huge turn-off for me. There's no way a young brat spoiled by modern civilization would know this stuff. This article get's it. (https://frogkun.com/2018/07/10/how-a-not-so-realist-hero-rebuilt-the-kingdom-on-privilege-and-hubris/)
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 09:05
^Other raw readers must've known truly good ones and have them translated someway, right?
Like some translations started after I made threads about them
Btw, anyone finds it odd that Isekai-ed MCs know unusual information?
-Like how to make soap
-Profitable plants
-Pre-modern machinery
-Food/ingredient stuffs
Are normal people (those not preparing to be isekai-ed) normally know these things?
Chinese webnovels are a bit more complicated.Webnovels almost never get published as physical forms and frankly there’s just way too many of them.I had a brief look at novelupdates and none of the top ranking western fantasy novels seems to be on the list, except for ‘Release that Witch’.Seems like most of the translators just pick up xianxia BS,which frankly is a more popular genre in China.
^Chinese productivity strikes again
But usually only xianxia and CEO CRAP
^^^Engineer but knows deep chemistry, poetry, and other stuffs beyond his profession
Most isekai-ed MCs are students, regular office worker, and neet tho
^^Nice article
"Somehow, this average shmuck has all the specialist knowledge and administrative expertise to enact sweeping social and economic reforms to immediate success. We all know that things aren’t so simple, but it’s a thought experiment we like to entertain because a part of us thinks that we’re cleverer than the people of long ago."
LMAO
I said I hate when japanese people is changing isekai into japan
But in the first place, it'd be hard for them to do that
You can put up the idea, but the technical knowledge is hard, especially for randomly isekai-ed people
Logically thinking, the presence of magic would lead to completely new technological age where these japanese are not superior of
Btw, why would any fantasy lovers trying to modernize isekai? That's so dumb
We love medieval isekai and these japanese are trying to turn it into... something else with itadakimasu
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 09:29
^Chinese productivity strikes again
But usually only xianxia and CEO CRAP
^^^Engineer but knows deep chemistry, poetry, and other stuffs beyond his profession
Most isekai-ed MCs are students, regular office worker, and neet tho
^^Nice article
"Somehow, this average shmuck has all the specialist knowledge and administrative expertise to enact sweeping social and economic reforms to immediate success. We all know that things aren’t so simple, but it’s a thought experiment we like to entertain because a part of us thinks that we’re cleverer than the people of long ago."
LMAO
I said I hate when japanese people is changing isekai into japan
But in the first place, it'd be hard for them to do that
You can put up the idea, but the technical knowledge is hard, especially for randomly isekai-ed people
Logically thinking, the presence of magic would lead to completely new technological age where these japanese are not superior of
Btw, why would any fantasy lovers trying to modernize isekai? That's so dumb
We love medieval isekai and these japanese are trying to turn it into... something else with itadakimasu
Why wouldn’t you wanna modernize isekai?By nature, isekai should be a much more barbaric and backwards place than the world we came from. What isekai lovers loved are simply magic and the chance to become a big shot. A good portion of MC in recent years *like Hajime cough cough* learned what a sh#t place isekai is if you don’t have any cheats.Furthermore,if you are the king of a isekai country, why wouldn’t you want to gain an advantage over your rivals by uplifting your country’s technological base?
^Chinese productivity strikes again
But usually only xianxia and CEO CRAP
^^^Engineer but knows deep chemistry, poetry, and other stuffs beyond his profession
Most isekai-ed MCs are students, regular office worker, and neet tho
^^Nice article
"Somehow, this average shmuck has all the specialist knowledge and administrative expertise to enact sweeping social and economic reforms to immediate success. We all know that things aren’t so simple, but it’s a thought experiment we like to entertain because a part of us thinks that we’re cleverer than the people of long ago."
LMAO
I said I hate when japanese people is changing isekai into japan
But in the first place, it'd be hard for them to do that
You can put up the idea, but the technical knowledge is hard, especially for randomly isekai-ed people
Logically thinking, the presence of magic would lead to completely new technological age where these japanese are not superior of
Btw, why would any fantasy lovers trying to modernize isekai? That's so dumb
We love medieval isekai and these japanese are trying to turn it into... something else with itadakimasu
The arrogance of it all astounds me. Even the most basic modern convenience was the product of decades, if not centuries, of research and development from specialists from many different fields. Just cause you know what it does, doesn't mean you know how it works.
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 09:53
The arrogance of it all astounds me. Even the most basic modern convenience was the product of decades, if not centuries, of research and development from specialists from many different fields. Just cause you know what it does, doesn't mean you know how it works.
Forget it bro. If you are ready to accept that the MC is allowed to have cheats that makes him a one man army, then why is it such a big deal if he secretly has another cheat that gives him all the technical knowledge of planet earth:D?
But yeah, as mentioned early, this part is where Chinese webnovels really shines(despite a whole list of other problems). They go into the nitty gritty details of what’s realistic and what isn’t.
dragon1412
2020-03-05, 10:08
It kinda like notions of how nobles are dumb, I mean, generally, nobles are smart, the seriously dumb one only appear in very long lived dynasty.
I think I mentioned it before, but generally bringing technology to Isekai is not really that realistic, it came from another forum i frequent, but the general consensus is that our current level of technology is actually a sum of many, many different parts and you can't simply skip them. It's like building an engine, the actually hard part is actually how to get the unified screw and bolt. Assuming that you can skip the intermediate level of tech is actually pretty unrealistic.
And introducing new tech is always met with oppositions, I mean, you don't actually get people to use them that easily. And sometimes people got seriously shafted by technology since it take their jobs. Look at the industrial revolution and see how many people forced into poverty back during that time.
Another point is that rulers are actually dumb, the foundation for the rules of power actually isn't changed that much from feudal era to current time in our world, it changed, but the core largely remain the same. It's also the reason why I don't like becoming King trope, since by nature, you simply cannot rule a country alone, no matter how powerful you are, except the entire country is essentially machine exist for you.
And let's not mentioned how economic reform always works in novels, generally, economics reform, no matter how good it is in theory, can fail if the system isn't up to it. It's like introduce a bunch of new tech to people who can't even read. The civilization level and technology is linked.
In my case, it's less how the modernize isekai is an issues than it is the way the author portray it. Like i said in my previous post, I have yet seen novels where nature disaster prove to puny human how easily it can screw them over, even our current world is terrified whenever a true disaster struck like storm and flood.
Btw, anyone finds it odd that Isekai-ed MCs know unusual information?
-Like how to make soap
-Profitable plants
-Pre-modern machinery
-Food/ingredient stuffs
Are normal people (those not preparing to be isekai-ed) normally know these things?
I think so, omitting the ingredients and plants, it depends on the education and if the person who teaches does activities through crafts such as models.
But when this is used in an Isekai it is almost always a semi-perfect or perfect product without any trial and error curve.
They also almost never use someone's help as an alchemist or blacksmith or make them so dumb that they don't know what the MC is talking about.
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 10:19
It kinda like notions of how nobles are dumb, I mean, generally, nobles are smart, the seriously dumb one only appear in very long lived dynasty.
I think I mentioned it before, but generally bringing technology to Isekai is not really that realistic, it came from another forum i frequent, but the general consensus is that our current level of technology is actually a sum of many, many different parts and you can't simply skip them. It's like building an engine, the actually hard part is actually how to get the unified screw and bolt. Assuming that you can skip the intermediate level of tech is actually pretty unrealistic.
Not entirely.One concept a lot of more professional authors tend to use would be to substitute technological components that couldn’t be replicated with magic equivalents.It’s deus ex machina, but it’s a more plausible explanation in a fantasy world than simply one guy being able to replicate everything using purely medieval technology.
Science when combined with magic has the potential to exceed either discipline by itself.
dragon1412
2020-03-05, 10:40
Not entirely.One concept a lot of more professional authors tend to use would be to substitute technological components that couldn’t be replicated with magic equivalents.It’s deus ex machina, but it’s a more plausible explanation in a fantasy world than simply one guy being able to replicate everything using purely medieval technology.
Science when combined with magic has the potential to exceed either discipline by itself.
I agree, but we rarely seen case where this happen, generally, I only seen that Magic is used to skip some stuff to get to actually tech, rather than an active combination of both:heh:
^I don't know what you are doing, but you should delete the old post instead of the new post yo
Like this
It kinda like notions of how nobles are dumb, I mean, generally, nobles are smart, the seriously dumb one only appear in very long lived dynasty.
I think I mentioned it before, but generally bringing technology to Isekai is not really that realistic, it came from another forum i frequent, but the general consensus is that our current level of technology is actually a sum of many, many different parts and you can't simply skip them. It's like building an engine, the actually hard part is actually how to get the unified screw and bolt. Assuming that you can skip the intermediate level of tech is actually pretty unrealistic.
And introducing new tech is always met with oppositions, I mean, you don't actually get people to use them that easily. And sometimes people got seriously shafted by technology since it take their jobs. Look at the industrial revolution and see how many people forced into poverty back during that time.
Epic
Why wouldn’t you wanna modernize isekai?By nature, isekai should be a much more barbaric and backwards place than the world we came from. What isekai lovers loved are simply magic and the chance to become a big shot. A good portion of MC in recent years *like Hajime cough cough* learned what a sh#t place isekai is if you don’t have any cheats.Furthermore,if you are the king of a isekai country, why wouldn’t you want to gain an advantage over your rivals by uplifting your country’s technological base?
Answering in reverse order :
-Because it's technology, it can be stolen, try introducing guns and next week the enemy countries will have it too (your modern tech doesn't hinder spies)
-Hajime didn't spread his knowledge, actually great MC
-Yea, cheap writing to rise the MC into power
-All these MCs are sent into medieval isekai, isn't that because that age is fun?
The arrogance of it all astounds me. Even the most basic modern convenience was the product of decades, if not centuries, of research and development from specialists from many different fields. Just cause you know what it does, doesn't mean you know how it works.
Exactly
Modern people underestimate past people too much
Like I don't believe the ultimate trick "Increase your mana capacity by exhausting it everyday since childhood" hasn't been invented before
There must be magic researchers
Even if not, daily activities will reveal this immediately
"oops, I accidentally used all my mana and the next day the capacity seems increasing?"
Or in wars, where soldiers keep expending their mana
This should be common knowledge
But oh, only our modern MC will figure out this super technique lmao :heh:
dragon1412
2020-03-05, 11:58
hmm, ok. remember that next time.
For me, it's less " Only i figured out this trick" and more, why the hell is it so effective toward MC, I mean, you can rationalized that MC doing it since kid, but generally, for jobs that used magic, they definitely exhausted it usually, consider how convenient it is. Using the majority of story based, kid which have magic power definitely fancy games like using fire ball and they definitely exhaust even if they don't use it for training, they might not be as efficient as MC, but I sincerely doubt case where people exhaust their magic is that uncommon. It's like exhausting our own stamina as a kid. The real differences is diet and DNa, So in my case, I'd say that the issues is not the trick but the differences between MC and other of his ages, the differences is there, but at most around 1.5 times or 2 times, it shouldn't be that big
Endscape
2020-03-05, 12:11
Exactly
Modern people underestimate past people too much
Like I don't believe the ultimate trick "Increase your mana capacity by exhausting it everyday since childhood" hasn't been invented before
There must be magic researchers
Even if not, daily activities will reveal this immediately
"oops, I accidentally used all my mana and the next day the capacity seems increasing?"
Or in wars, where soldiers keep expending their mana
This should be common knowledge
But oh, only our modern MC will figure out this super technique lmao :heh:
Usually when I see this trope, you need to use up your mana when you're literally a baby for it to have any exceptional effects.
I suppose the idea comes from children learning languages easier. I can buy that people wouldn't figure that out so easily.
^Posting at the same time is awkward
In assassin noble and some, the MC taught other children that method
And in a short time they became court magician class lmao :heh:
Of course MC still grow the fastest coz started earlier (even baby) or other cheats
But still, this method should be more widespread, at least in magician nobles
Also, in this kind of magic world, it might be not unusual to find a case where babies are leaking mana and people need to replenish it to keep them alive
This kind of situation would be even more effective than MC's method
Like Ki Injection in cultivation stories
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 14:29
I agree, but we rarely seen case where this happen, generally, I only seen that Magic is used to skip some stuff to get to actually tech, rather than an active combination of both:heh:
I see that a lot in Chinese webnovels.
^I don't know what you are doing, but you should delete the old post instead of the new post yo
Like this
Epic
Answering in reverse order :
-Because it's technology, it can be stolen, try introducing guns and next week the enemy countries will have it too (your modern tech doesn't hinder spies)
-Hajime didn't spread his knowledge, actually great MC
-Yea, cheap writing to rise the MC into power
-All these MCs are sent into medieval isekai, isn't that because that age is fun?
Exactly
Modern people underestimate past people too much
Like I don't believe the ultimate trick "Increase your mana capacity by exhausting it everyday since childhood" hasn't been invented before
There must be magic researchers
Even if not, daily activities will reveal this immediately
"oops, I accidentally used all my mana and the next day the capacity seems increasing?"
Or in wars, where soldiers keep expending their mana
This should be common knowledge
But oh, only our modern MC will figure out this super technique lmao :heh:
To quote a favourite line of mine spoken by a lot of Chinese MCs: “By the time these natives invent firing by rank, I would have already invented machine guns and trench warfare; by the time these natives invented machine guns and trench warfare, I would have already invented airplanes and tanks”. The arrogance is strong I know, but it explains things exactly.
It takes time and effort to replicate technology and by the time someone catches up to you, you may have already developed something far more advanced.In actuality, there’s a limit to what spying can do because like what we discussed, the more advanced your technology, the more technology is involved in the creation of each component of an item. I wouldn’t expect people from a third world country would be able to build a F-35 fighter plane even if the US gave them the full schematics for example, at least not for a lot of years.
It breaks common sense if people don’t try to use modern knowledge if it made sense within the context.
A lot of MCs these days seem to have this goal to defeat the Maou/kuzu kami and go back to Japan with their harem. Most of them were forcibly sent to isekai in the first place.Kuzu Kami/king made that option for them, not the heroes themselves.
I remember there's a novel where the MC has two extra souls inside him, one of which being a Japanese student. The dude was obsessed with trivia and what not so he gives the MC lots of ideas, but his knowledge is stated to be surface level and he cant do anything that requires intermediate tech.
Like he knows how to make a basic pump (a huge deal in medieval times) but cant do anything like make a battery.
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 16:27
I remember there's a novel where the MC has two extra souls inside him, one of which being a Japanese student. The dude was obsessed with trivia and what not so he gives the MC lots of ideas, but his knowledge is stated to be surface level and he cant do anything that requires intermediate tech.
Like he knows how to make a basic pump (a huge deal in medieval times) but cant do anything like make a battery.
With something like that,if he is able to tell a craftsman the idea of it,then recreating it should be possible.The level of technology involved is not too hard.
With something like that,if he is able to tell a craftsman the idea of it,then recreating it should be possible.The level of technology involved is not too hard.
Yeah, that was another thing. He basically never actually made the stuff himself, he had to contact actual professionals.
The closest he got to the typical "knowledge cheat" was him having some basic knowledge of a disease. He transmits that to the medical staff and gets the king to spread it around and that helps stop a pandemic.
Ruki0089
2020-03-05, 17:16
That's definitely Isekai Tensei Soudoki:heh:
That's definitely Isekai Tensei Soudoki:heh:
Yeah, that one. Forgot the title and couldn't find it, so thanks for that :D
Gun is what, using explosion to propel object to lethal speed?
In a world where Fireball, Wind Blast, or other explosion/expansion type magic are common place, someone is bound to notice that when people are killed by the flung object instead of the explosion itself
It doesn't have to Einstein-level of genius (it's not weird for isekai to have many geniuses in the first place)
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 20:59
Gun is what, using explosion to propel object to lethal speed?
In a world where Fireball, Wind Blast, or other explosion/expansion type magic are common place, someone is bound to notice that when people are killed by the flung object instead of the explosion itself
It doesn't have to Einstein-level of genius (it's not weird for isekai to have many geniuses in the first place)
But how do you mass produce the ammunition so that it’s the right caliber?How do you create the correct type of metal and composition in the gun barrel so that it doesn’t just explode or can only be used for a single shot in a way that’s economically viable?The barrel will also need to be created in such a way that it’s precise.These require technical knowledge and years of research as well. Magical part is to device what kind of explosion of magic is required such that it is cheap to mass produce and safe enough such that it is not too powerful for the gun to handle and too weak—that plus loading mechanisms. Even if you can reproduce the gun, there is the matter of how to use it in the army best. Military doctrine and organisation also matters.
Besides this, any attempts to adopt this sort of warfare requires the presence of an industrialised society to support it. By the time your opponents realise this, it may be too late for them even if they knew how to produce your weapons. I would not imagine elves with their limited population and social fabric for example to be able to engage in industrialised warfare the same way humans do.
But how do you mass produce the ammunition so that it’s the right caliber?How do you create the correct type of metal and composition in the gun barrel so that it doesn’t just explode or can only be used for a single shot in a way that’s economically viable?The barrel will also need to be created in such a way that it’s precise.These require technical knowledge and years of research as well. Magical part is to device what kind of explosion of magic is required such that it is cheap to mass produce and safe enough such that it is not too powerful for the gun to handle and too weak—that plus loading mechanisms. Even if you can reproduce the gun, there is the matter of how to use it in the army best. Military doctrine and organisation also matters.
Besides this, any attempts to adopt this sort of warfare requires the presence of an industrialised society to support it. By the time your opponents realise this, it may be too late for them even if they knew how to produce your weapons. I would not imagine elves with their limited population and social fabric for example to be able to engage in industrialised warfare the same way humans do.
And depending on the availability and ease of magic, the cost may not justify the development of firearms.
^Yup
But how do you mass produce the ammunition so that it’s the right caliber?How do you create the correct type of metal and composition in the gun barrel so that it doesn’t just explode or can only be used for a single shot in a way that’s economically viable?The barrel will also need to be created in such a way that it’s precise.These require technical knowledge and years of research as well. Magical part is to device what kind of explosion of magic is required such that it is cheap to mass produce and safe enough such that it is not too powerful for the gun to handle and too weak—that plus loading mechanisms. Even if you can reproduce the gun, there is the matter of how to use it in the army best. Military doctrine and organisation also matters.
Besides this, any attempts to adopt this sort of warfare requires the presence of an industrialised society to support it. By the time your opponents realise this, it may be too late for them even if they knew how to produce your weapons. I would not imagine elves with their limited population and social fabric for example to be able to engage in industrialised warfare the same way humans do.
And you're saying that random isekai-ed dudes are able to do that?
So this random guy established industrialized society, invent guns till machine guns, without anyone knowing?
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 21:55
^Yup
And you're saying that random isekai-ed dudes are able to do that?
So this random guy established industrialized society, invent guns till machine guns, without anyone knowing?
With enough time yes. I have read novels where the MC spent 10-20 years industrialising the country he lords over and then steamroll his enemies with magitech industrial warfare at the end. And yes, some countries are just dumb enough to dismiss industrialisation. Some societies simply do not have the capacity to undergo industrialisation. You cannot industrialise a country where the bulk of the population comprised of serfs for example.In real life, Russia and China for example industrialised decades if not over a hundred years later than Western European countries for example.
-Random hate
When the MC has a crafter/production like cheat but they make him stronger than everyone else. I think a novel about a crafting MC dealing with the production side of things (guilds,other crafters and clients) while his harem or friends deal with the fight/collection part of things would make an interesting novel.
^Yes
Well, if his crafting can create Iron Man armor then understandable
With enough time yes. I have read novels where the MC spent 10-20 years industrialising the country he lords over and then steamroll his enemies with magitech industrial warfare at the end.
Extremely bad writing then
Do you know how fast China is stealing US's techs? 2 weeks
Once again you're underestimating isekai's IQ too much
Very arrogant
Gun is what, using explosion to propel object to lethal speed?
In a world where Fireball, Wind Blast, or other explosion/expansion type magic are common place, someone is bound to notice that when people are killed by the flung object instead of the explosion itself
It doesn't have to Einstein-level of genius (it's not weird for isekai to have many geniuses in the first place)
You aren't wrong, and the creation of cannons would make sense, but if people can already hurl explosive fireballs at range why would they ever be necessary?
Early guns were not only as dangerous for the user as for the target (since it'd likely explode) but their power was laughable. Like a heavy shirt could stop a musket ball from too far away. That's not going to work on a fire ball that can gouge the ground hard enough to propel rocks
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 22:03
^Yes
Well, if his crafting can create Iron Man armor then understandable
Extremely bad writing then
Do you know how fast China is stealing US's techs? 2 weeks
Once again you're underestimating isekai's IQ too much
Very arrogant
You know how long it took for China to be able to build up the industrial/technological capacity to steal US tech? 100 years. Before China can even steal US tech, they need to educate enough scientists and have an industry capable of making the US equipment. In the 1870s for example, China could not even produce proper US rifles after they legally bought a license from the US!
You aren't wrong, and the creation of cannons would make sense, but if people can already hurl explosive fireballs at range why would they ever be necessary?
Thus bakato said it's unnecessary
Which I agree because I hate when they modernize isekai
You know how long it took for China to be able to build up the industrial/technological capacity to steal US tech? 100 years. Before China can even steal US tech, they need to educate enough scientists and have an industry capable of making the US equipment. In the 1870s for example, China could not even produce US rifles after they legally bought a license from the US!
Well they can now
And if it's just ideas that random highschoolers can convey to local craftsmen
Then it's possible to steal that
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 22:27
You aren't wrong, and the creation of cannons would make sense, but if people can already hurl explosive fireballs at range why would they ever be necessary?
Early guns were not only as dangerous for the user as for the target (since it'd likely explode) but their power was laughable. Like a heavy shirt could stop a musket ball from too far away. That's not going to work on a fire ball that can gouge the ground hard enough to propel rocks
Because it takes over a decade of training to get people who can hurl explosive fireballs over a long distance, and very often, the ability to achieve this is limited to less than 1% of the population in a isekai situation. If a lot of them are somehow killed in a war then your country is super screwed. Even early guns are good because you can train a larger percentage of your population to fight in a couple of weeks. Even bows for example takes decades to master if you want to be proficient at it in a military setting.
There is often a limitation as well to how widespread magic is as well. If it’s not then a lot of peasants in isekai novels wouldn’t be farming for subsistence. Also,technology development in a isekai setting isn’t used for just military weaponry, but economic development as well. The Haber-Bosch process for example would make a lot of happy peasants.
Thus bakato said it's unnecessary
Which I agree because I hate when they modernize isekai
Well they can now
And if it's just ideas that random highschoolers can convey to local craftsmen
Then it's possible to steal thatAnd a lot of stuff China produces are still shoddy knock-offs of the US version.
As for your second point,it’s because by the time said person starts trying to research and produce guns, he’s generally already the lord or king of some country with secret police under his pay to counter espionage. He would be devoting a lot of state funding to recruit the brightest minds across the land to aid the research as well. And by the time your enemies figured out how to produce said weapon, your production team would have likely moved on to developing a more advanced version of the weapon, if not a totally different weapon altogether.
Because it takes over a decade of training to get people who can hurl explosive fireballs over a long distance, and very often, the ability to achieve this is limited to less than 1% of the population in a isekai situation. If a lot of them are somehow killed in a war then your country is super screwed. Even early guns are good because you can train a larger percentage of your population to fight in a couple of weeks. Even bows for example takes decades to master if you want to be proficient at it in a military setting.
There is often a limitation as well to how widespread magic is as well. If it’s not then a lot of peasants in isekai novels wouldn’t be farming for subsistence.
An average army is made up of less than 1% of the nations population anyway.
Also the "guns can be effective after a couple weeks" is BS. That's not muskets, much less their earlier prototypes. That's rifles, and the thing they can be easily trained for is massed fire in formation without aiming.
Unless the magic system is deliberately set so low that it can't exceed the range of a musket or the power of a cannon, they'll never make it past the original stage, much less the point of actual massed fire formations.
If the mages are at even the relatively modest levels of something like Danmachi, much less something like Negima/Highschool DxD/Nanoha or god forbid the reaches of DnD, anything below modern firearms would be a joke.
Edit: For clarification, muskets and earlier weapons did used massed fire and volley fire, they just weren't actually lethally effective at long range until rifling came around.
As for your second point,it’s because by the time said person starts trying to research and produce guns, he’s generally already the lord or king of some country with secret police under his pay to counter espionage. He would be devoting a lot of state funding to recruit the brightest minds across the land to aid the research as well. And by the time your enemies figured out how to produce said weapon, your production team would have likely moved on to developing a more advanced version of the weapon, if not a totally different weapon altogether.
Why the hell is he already in position power BEFORE exploiting guns cheat?
Avrorrange
2020-03-05, 22:48
An average army is made up of less than 1% of the nations population anyway.
Also the "guns can be effective after a couple weeks" is BS. That's not muskets, much less their earlier prototypes. That's rifles, and the thing they can be easily trained for is massed fire in formation without aiming.
Unless the magic system is deliberately set so low that it can't exceed the range of a musket or the power of a cannon, they'll never make it past the original stage, much less the point of actual massed fire formations.
If the mages are at even the relatively modest levels of something like Danmachi, much less something like Negima/Highschool DxD/Nanoha or god forbid the reaches of DnD, anything below modern firearms would be a joke.
Edit: For clarification, muskets and earlier weapons did used massed fire and volley fire, they just weren't actually lethally effective at long range until rifling came around.
And most of said 1% probably would be scouted to be trained in the first place. It takes a lot of money to train mages.
In normal fantasy settings, if mages are so OP, then melee soldiers like knights probably wouldn’t have been able to exist.Truth is that normal fantasy nations have scores of regularly foot soldiers who aren’t even knights. This indicates that the ability to make up the numbers of an army is still desired.
Early gunners can definitely be trained to be effective after a couple of weeks. It’s why early guns ended up replacing bows in the first place, despite being less accurate and dangerous to the user.
And most of said 1% probably would be scouted to be trained in the first place. It takes a lot of money to train mages.
In normal fantasy settings, if mages are so OP, then melee soldiers like knights probably wouldn’t have been able to exist.Truth is that normal fantasy nations have scores of regularly foot soldiers who aren’t even knights. This indicates that the ability to make up the numbers of an army is still desired.
Early gunners can definitely be trained to be effective after a couple of weeks. It’s why early guns ended up replacing bows in the first place, despite being highly accurate and dangerous to the user.
Why? Generally the training involves a regular school attendance for 5-10 years and then yeet them nuclear fireballs.
In most isekai settings its because the foot soldiers are also superhuman. I realize most authors don't actually calculate the speed and power behind the stuff their characters do, but to pick on Danmachi again, the high level melee fighters in there are fast enough to dodge lightning bolts. No modern weapon save a laser could hit them. And they hit each other with strikes that exceed any kind of non strategic ordinance we can muster. Hence numbers still matter.
Not really, no. It took centuries for them to fully replace bows, and even that wasn't fully completed until the mass production of the musket was in process. Even then, the kill ratio of the musket actually fell below that of a good bowman, it was just that muskets were loud as fuck and you couldn't see them coming. So they scared the hell out of horses and you couldn't pull up a shield to block the incoming fire like with arrows.
Avrorrange
2020-03-06, 03:34
Why? Generally the training involves a regular school attendance for 5-10 years and then yeet them nuclear fireballs.
In most isekai settings its because the foot soldiers are also superhuman. I realize most authors don't actually calculate the speed and power behind the stuff their characters do, but to pick on Danmachi again, the high level melee fighters in there are fast enough to dodge lightning bolts. No modern weapon save a laser could hit them. And they hit each other with strikes that exceed any kind of non strategic ordinance we can muster. Hence numbers still matter.
Not really, no. It took centuries for them to fully replace bows, and even that wasn't fully completed until the mass production of the musket was in process. Even then, the kill ratio of the musket actually fell below that of a good bowman, it was just that muskets were loud as fuck and you couldn't see them coming. So they scared the hell out of horses and you couldn't pull up a shield to block the incoming fire like with arrows.
No, most fantasies have grunts that are at best only above average physically compared to humans of our world. This is mainly because they actually train their bodies for physical combat. They are nowhere near super human level however.In most fantasy stories where guns are actually produced, most of them cannot dodge it.In Gate for example, some grunts even got defeated in close quarter combat when the Japanese troops fixed bayonets.A well aimed shot disables if not kills an enemy combatant.Mobs in Danmachi are not indicative of the normal ability of Danmachi world grunts because Oratoria assembles the best warriors across the world. So even a grunt in oratoria would most likely be stronger than a normal soldier outside it.
In most reincarnation fantasy settings,the MC often talks about how expensive magic education is and how they often get enrolled because of a scholarship or how they were already rich. As for ‘nuclear explosion’, that isn’t common either. People who can conjure that are generally high tier magicians(Megumin from Konosuba for example).Only a few people can do that, and the chants takes too long.It can also be too taxing to the magician. Depending on the sophistication of the artillery system, modern artillery would be more effective than mages because they could be fired on a more regular basis and mass produced.
Furthermore, most wars in actual fantasy settings actually consists of high ranked fighters fighting each other while the grunts fights the grunts. Should the grunts of one side emerge victorious, then the champion of the losing side would be disadvantaged in a fight against other champions. So any ability to increase the size and combat ability of the grunts is a plus. Modern technology not only allow more people to take up arms, but actually increase food and tax production such that governments are able to raise and sustain larger armies out in the field.
Bows were phased out when arquebus entered full production. What was special about early firearms is that they provide greater armour penetration than bows and as mentioned easier to train people with. Bows will always beat arquebus in a 1v1 fight due to bowmen being much better trained and more accurate in general, but such bowmen will always take at least a decade to train, plus the bowmen were beginning to have difficult penetrating armour. The increased number of arquebusiers rendered losses in bow-centric armies unviable on a purely attrition basis.
Nonetheless, in a fantasy setting, even early firearms aren’t necessarily poor inaccurate things due to the incorporation of magitech.
^Okay then
I wish more female MC or winning heroine have exotic appearance
Like this
https://i.ibb.co/m8TqpDr/Screenshot-20200306-163602.png (https://ibb.co/Kwhqn0c)
Avrorrange
2020-03-06, 04:46
Why the hell is he already in position power BEFORE exploiting guns cheat?
Long answer:
1.MC is already a king/emperor or a member of the royal family.
2.MC is a already a noble in charge of a large fief.
3.MC isn’t actually dense and marries a princess/queen/empress early on in the story and actually take over their country.
4.MC is ore tueee and managed to take over a country after attracting enough followers to form an army that helps him conquer the place.
5.MC got granted a fief for his services
6.MC got invited to be a ruler through an election.
7.A combination of all of the above.
All of this does not necessarily have to be done at the end. It could be done midway through the story or earlier.
Short answer:
The author wills it!
^Okay then
I wish more female MC or winning heroine have exotic appearance
Like this
https://i.ibb.co/m8TqpDr/Screenshot-20200306-163602.png (https://ibb.co/Kwhqn0c)
Thank you for your response!
Long answer:
1.MC is already a king/emperor or a member of the royal family.
2.MC is a already a noble in charge of a large fief.
3.MC isn’t actually dense and marries a princess/queen/empress early on in the story and actually take over their country.
4.MC is ore tueee and managed to take over a country after attracting enough followers to form an army that helps him conquer the place.
5.MC got granted a fief for his services
6.MC got invited to be a ruler through an election.
7.A combination of all of the above.
All of this does not necessarily have to be done at the end. It could be done midway through the story or earlier.
Short answer:
The author wills it!
*sigh*
You need very harsh underlying conditions to be fulfilled in order to start that cheat...
I think only at King level this is actually possible to be executed
If you are just a noble, I don't think your King will allow you to gain that much power
Unless you are the heir or heir's fiance
Avrorrange
2020-03-06, 05:53
*sigh*
You need very harsh underlying conditions to be fulfilled in order to start that cheat...
I think only at King level this is actually possible to be executed
If you are just a noble, I don't think your King will allow you to gain that much power
Unless you are the heir or heir's fiance
Depends on the structure and context of the realm really. In one of the novels I have read, the kingdom is basically like the Holy Roman Empire, with the crown being elective and the Dukes being de facto kings in their own fiefs.The kingdom’s also regularly under attack by a lot of external threats and as such the king had no choice but to tolerate the MC and watch as he grows even more powerful with each victory.It did not help the king’s cause that one of the elector dukes married his daughter to the MC,which gave the MC a major ally. The king ultimately had to abdicate because his ability was not up to task and he was frankly sick of dealing with the shenanigans of the other dukes in the end. All he wanted was to shove the throne off to his nephew because his son was incompetent, but even that didn’t end well.
^That's a special situation which is not really unfamiliar
Like Warring Lords in Past Japan and China
I mean Nobunaga did swept Japan with the power of guns
Probably works in that situation
Template Isekai Kingdom probably much more difficult
No, most fantasies have grunts that are at best only above average physically compared to humans of our world. This is mainly because they actually train their bodies for physical combat. They are nowhere near super human level however.In most fantasy stories where guns are actually produced, most of them cannot dodge it.In Gate for example, some grunts even got defeated in close quarter combat when the Japanese troops fixed bayonets.A well aimed shot disables if not kills an enemy combatant.Mobs in Danmachi are not indicative of the normal ability of Danmachi world grunts because Oratoria assembles the best warriors across the world. So even a grunt in oratoria would most likely be stronger than a normal soldier outside it.
In most reincarnation fantasy settings,the MC often talks about how expensive magic education is and how they often get enrolled because of a scholarship or how they were already rich. As for ‘nuclear explosion’, that isn’t common either. People who can conjure that are generally high tier magicians(Megumin from Konosuba for example).Only a few people can do that, and the chants takes too long.It can also be too taxing to the magician. Depending on the sophistication of the artillery system, modern artillery would be more effective than mages because they could be fired on a more regular basis and mass produced.
Furthermore, most wars in actual fantasy settings actually consists of high ranked fighters fighting each other while the grunts fights the grunts. Should the grunts of one side emerge victorious, then the champion of the losing side would be disadvantaged in a fight against other champions. So any ability to increase the size and combat ability of the grunts is a plus. Modern technology not only allow more people to take up arms, but actually increase food and tax production such that governments are able to raise and sustain larger armies out in the field.
Bows were phased out when arquebus entered full production. What was special about early firearms is that they provide greater armour penetration than bows and as mentioned easier to train people with. Bows will always beat arquebus in a 1v1 fight due to bowmen being much better trained and more accurate in general, but such bowmen will always take at least a decade to train, plus the bowmen were beginning to have difficult penetrating armour. The increased number of arquebusiers rendered losses in bow-centric armies unviable on a purely attrition basis.
Nonetheless, in a fantasy setting, even early firearms aren’t necessarily poor inaccurate things due to the incorporation of magitech.
The only fantasies that do that are the ones deliberately controlling the level of power so that the "modern weapon" can be an actual threat. Freaking Lord of the Rings has the Men of the West regularly do superhuman things far beyond normal humans if you look at the lore.
Except there are always dozens to hundreds of students at that school who at least have a cursory grasp of the subject despite being there for about a year.
Megumin came from an entire village of super wizards who single handedly beat the shit out of the demon lord army, and nobody wanted her in their party because she was useless.
The idea of chants taking too long or arbitrary range restrictions is again a conceit almost entirely associated with fantasies bending over backward to create weaknesses to then make technology sound more powerful. Try and pull that with someone from Negima or Nanoha. Or DnD. Or Highschool DxD. Or the vast majority of western fantasy like the Inheritance Cycle or Riftwar Saga.
And again that only applies to those odd fantasy worlds where some people are superhuman while the majority are entirely indistinguishable from medieval peasants. Anything where magic is not deliberately restrained to be defeatable by modern tech and restricted to only a handful of people basically invalidates modern weapons.
No, they didn't. It took 200 years to phase the longbow out of military operation, and Europe did it far faster than Asia, who were still using bows into the 18th century. An army of bowman would always slaughter an army of gunmen until at least the introduction and mass production of rifled muskets, due to a massive fire rate and range advantage. Even in Europe, it was ultimately just because ammo was cheaper that it was actually fully switched over.
And if magic can do that they'd be better of creating a fireball gun.
^Okay then
Please don't revolutionize Isekai just for the sake of MC's achievements
Btw, I'm reading Brandon Sanderson again, and the details of things are on different level compared to narou :heh:
Somehow now I find that boring and wants the simplicity of narou
Damn narou is making people's IQ goes down
Avrorrange
2020-03-06, 20:25
The only fantasies that do that are the ones deliberately controlling the level of power so that the "modern weapon" can be an actual threat. Freaking Lord of the Rings has the Men of the West regularly do superhuman things far beyond normal humans if you look at the lore. Not the grunts in general though, and the Dunedain are few in numbers. Nonetheless, most of them die if they take a round. There was a discussion about how Sauron would win if he had access to just simple arquebuses because it would have cheaply raised the fighting ability of the orcs.
Except there are always dozens to hundreds of students at that school who at least have a cursory grasp of the subject despite being there for about a year.In most fantasy settings,mate school students generally come from wealthy or mage families who would have provided rudimentary magic education before they even came to school.
Megumin came from an entire village of super wizards who single handedly beat the shit out of the demon lord army, and nobody wanted her in their party because she was useless.That’s the point,only a selection of mages are able to conjure nuclear fire,within an already selective society.Megumin was useless because nuclear fire was too op,takes too long to use and that’s the only thing she could do.
The idea of chants taking too long or arbitrary range restrictions is again a conceit almost entirely associated with fantasies bending over backward to create weaknesses to then make technology sound more powerful. Try and pull that with someone from Negima or Nanoha. Or DnD. Or Highschool DxD. Or the vast majority of western fantasy like the Inheritance Cycle or Riftwar Saga.DxD is not normal fantasy.Their levels are completely off the charts.Most characters are not humans to begin with.Many characters are even gods.
As for Negima/Nanoha, Negima/Nanoha world is the epitome of magic being utilised together with technology to create something more OP. It’s not pure magic.There are air battleships that fire lasers.They are not your typical fantasy where society’s stuck in the Middle Ages, and these societies are more advanced than our own.No need to modernise. They need to modernize ours.
As for the Inheritance cycle, they exemplify the type of fantasy warfare in a typical medieval fantasy world. The champions duke it out against each other while the grunts engage each other in medieval hand to hand fighting. There’s nothing special about the grunts. Mages are generally tied up trying to create barriers or tied up in duels where they try to nullify the attacks of opposing mages and kill them. The presence of a couple hundred howitzers would have over saturated the barriers of the mages.
In regards to DnD,once again not everyone is a mage, and mages who can use nuclear magic are once again minority,otherwise other classes wouldn’t even exist.
And again that only applies to those odd fantasy worlds where some people are superhuman while the majority are entirely indistinguishable from medieval peasants. Anything where magic is not deliberately restrained to be defeatable by modern tech and restricted to only a handful of people basically invalidates modern weapons.
Most isekai fantasy settings are like that......especially the webnovel ones(ie Tate no Yuusha,Arifureta etc).Most webnovels based isekai worlds takes place in a medieval society where most people farm for subsistence.Most people cannot fight and when people get into trouble from monsters/bandits,they pay the adventurer guild to take care if it.And I believe that the topic here is why the f#$k do Japanese mcs try to modernise these societies......
No, they didn't. It took 200 years to phase the longbow out of military operation, and Europe did it far faster than Asia, who were still using bows into the 18th century. An army of bowman would always slaughter an army of gunmen until at least the introduction and mass production of rifled muskets, due to a massive fire rate and range advantage. Even in Europe, it was ultimately just because ammo was cheaper that it was actually fully switched over.
And if magic can do that they'd be better of creating a fireball gun.Bows and arrows were phased out in Europe with the first hundred years of the arquebus being invented in the late 15th century. A lot of countries didn’t phase them out either because they did not have access to them or because armour technology was not sound in their area.By late 15th century, not even longbow arrows could penetrate plate armour.It’s why the English could no longer win in the late 15th century against France.
Not the grunts in general though, and the Dunedain are few in numbers. Nonetheless, most of them die if they take a round. There was a discussion about how Sauron would win if he had access to just simple arquebuses because it would have cheaply raised the fighting ability of the orcs.
I don't know what kind of discussion raised that as a possibility, but they need to read up on the lore of Tolkien more. The Men of the west (all of them) are significantly superhuman by our standards, the Elves are basically demigods, and actual wizards do shit like blow up mountains. And these are the dregs compared to the higer end stuff that happened in the mythic wars.
In most fantasy settings,mate school students generally come from wealthy or mage families who would have provided rudimentary magic education before they even came to school.
Yeah and there are still hundreds to thousands of them per country.
That’s the point,only a selection of mages are able to conjure nuclear fire,within an already selective society. Megumin was useless because nuclear fire was too op,takes too long to use and that’s the only thing she could do.
No, she was useless because she could only do it once. Everyone else in her village could blast out spells of that magnitude like firecrackers, and they're still contained within the high-mid tier of that world. Megumin is an adventurer in the worlds beginner village. She's part of the weakest category of adventurers.
DxD is not normal fantasy.Their levels are completely off the charts.Most characters are not humans to begin with.Many characters are even gods.
DxD is a fairly run of the mill shonen in terms of power level. It took them 30+ volumes to get to Saiyan saga DBZ levels.
As for Negima/Nanoha, Negima/Nanoha world is the epitome of magic being utilised together with technology to create something more OP. It’s not pure magic.There are air battleships that fire lasers.They are not your typical fantasy where society’s stuck in the Middle Ages, and these societies are more advanced than our own.No need to modernise. They need to modernize ours.
All of that is magic based though. It isn't till UQ Holder that the Negima verse begins starting shit with real magitech, and Nanoha flat out doesn't have actual hard tech. Literally everything is magic.
As for the Inheritance cycle, they exemplify the type of fantasy warfare in a typical medieval fantasy world. The champions duke it out against each other while the grunts engage each other in medieval hand to hand fighting. There’s nothing special about the grunts. Mages are generally tied up trying to create barriers or tied up in duels where they try to nullify the attacks of opposing mages and kill them. The presence of a couple hundred howitzers would have over saturated the barriers of the mages.
Lol. A single Rider could wipe out an entire army of modern weaponry with a single word from beyond the horizon while sitting behind shields that stop anything that moves faster than a fly.
A couple of basic bitch mages nearly shredded a magically shielded army with a basic flanking maneuver.
And the "grunts" include people who can smash their way through castle ramparts with their bare hands.
In regards to DnD,once again not everyone is a mage, and mages who can use nuclear magic are once again minority,otherwise other classes wouldn’t even exist.
The warriors in DnD have the strength of literal giants, their rouges can dodge thunderbolts from the sky, and rangers can shoot a wyvern two miles in the sky hiding behind clouds with magic shields.
This is basic ass mid level adventurer stuff.
Most isekai fantasy settings are like that......especially the webnovel ones(ie Tate no Yuusha,Arifureta etc).Most webnovels based isekai worlds takes place in a medieval society where most people farm for subsistence.Most people cannot fight and when people get into trouble from monsters/bandits,they pay the adventurer guild to take care if it.And I believe that the topic here is why the f#$k do Japanese mcs try to modernise these societies......
No, this only started popping up recently, with the idea of the "modern knowledge" cheat. Before that most verses had people throwing lightning bolts at each other and blowing the tops off of mountains.
Bows and arrows were phased out in Europe with the first hundred years of the arquebus being invented in the late 15th century. A lot of countries didn’t phase them out either because they did not have access to them or because armour technology was not sound in their area.By late 15th century, not even longbow arrows could penetrate plate armour.It’s why the English could no longer win in the late 15th century against France.
It took two centuries and again only took full effect because ammo was cheaper. It wasn't till muskets that guns even approached the leathality of bows, and even then it was heavily weighted in the bowmens favor.
Seriously, bows had more than 3 times the effective kill range of a musket, and ten times the fire rate.
There is often a limitation as well to how widespread magic is as well. If it’s not then a lot of peasants in isekai novels wouldn’t be farming for subsistence. Also,technology development in a isekai setting isn’t used for just military weaponry, but economic development as well. The Haber-Bosch process for example would make a lot of happy peasants.
I imagine most of the people farming has more to do with most of the pepole being needed to actually feed the population, though of course there might be some "smart" rulers that make them all into fighting force just to all die of starvation.
Now leaving out how high are chances that random dude actually knows Haber-Bosch process and whether any farmer would actually believe him it won't ruin his work (and that fertilizer won't just magically produce great harvest tomorrow to show everyone how great it works), let's see what wiki tells us about it to see how well anyone reincarnated guy can fare:
The process converts atmospheric nitrogen (N2) to ammonia (NH3) by a reaction with hydrogen (H2) using a metal catalyst under high temperatures and pressures:
So that's H2, under high temperatures and pressures and the metal catalyst that might be troublesome.
H2 can be made by electrolysis (unless you want to go into other complicated processes with lots of their own problesm): that means using lots of (as you said rare) mages, and even rarer thunder ones.
High temperature and pressure, now, that can certainly be done by... lots of fire and earth mages.
The metal catalyst: The actual catalyst is complicated and is produced by an elaborate procedure. now this doesn't sound too promising. Not only it seems to be complicated even with all the right tools (preprepared pure materials etc.), it doesn't even tell us it's full composition, which means that there is literally 0 chance random folk knows how to do it without being a researcher in exactly this field (also, if you continue reading the same article you will find lots of unpleasant worlds like "highly pure", "precise", "fine" etc. which you might as well read as "impossible"). So let's say continuous use of magic can substitute it.
In the end, you have a process that uses lots of mages to produce something a pile of dough can be a reasonable substitute for. You sure you don't want to just send one earth mage to go to the fields and change to earth composition and have the same result for 1/100 of the cost?
Almost everything in current technology is the same. It needs lots of prior tech to work. You might be able to reenact it with the use of magic, but it will be useless anyway as the magic can do the things by itself and cheaper. And you are just not going go from medieval tech into current world tech on large scale (bacause only large scale industrialization can actually handle modern tech) in one generation, that is just impossible (if only because of the completely different skillset the people need for those two eras). And if you have 50-100 years of relative peace, almost infinite resources, absolute power to enforce your will... where is the reason for you to introduce modern technology? Hell, mage breeding program could work much better in that timeframe.
We always see people selling Magic Cores of monsters easily, sometimes for astronomical price
But somehow we rarely see those Cores being used by anyone
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-07, 16:59
I imagine most of the people farming has more to do with most of the pepole being needed to actually feed the population, though of course there might be some "smart" rulers that make them all into fighting force just to all die of starvation.
IIRC in some earlier civilisations, war was pretty much only fought during winter. ie while the farmers have nothing to do, let's do a little neighbourly warmongering. Of course, this only really works with smaller countries.
But yeah, I don't think many people realise the effects of efficient farming...
Consider if all families are famers and each can only grow just about enough to survive. What happens if you try to tax them? That means taking their food since they'll have nothing else meaning that they'll starve and you then can't tax dead people. So it's be very hard for jobs above "farmer" to exist. But... some areas are much more fertile than others. In more fertile areas, crop produce more with the same effort and so now you could have excess production in those areas. If everyone is a farmer and everyone has excess production that's actually wasteful. So what you get is some people stop being farmers and now you have trade between these groups (food for other items). Let's say that the excess production means that 90% of the population can be farmers but there's still enough food for everyone. So the 10% who aren't farmers can now do higher level jobs. Let's say that some of this 10% are blacksmiths and eventually come up with metal tools that help increase the productivity of farmers. Once such tools become widespread enough then let's say farming efficiency increases enough such that 80% of the population need to be farmers - the number of non-farmers doubles. Let's say that the farmers have now farmed all the local fertile land. Now the population can't grow. But, perhaps people come up with new ideas (irrigation or techniques to improve land through fertilisation or crop rotation) which now means more land area can be used for farming. This allows the population to grow again. This also allows large populations to form in new areas - farming didn't start in Europe but as techniques spread it became practical to farm over time.
The fewer farmers you need in the population the more you can have working in other areas and these people can produce higher level products than "mere" food. These people can build more advanced structures (towns, forts, castles), create more advanced tools or even be full time soldiers. Essentially, the fewer farmers you need the richer and more advanced your civilisation can be, though this is simplifying things quite a bit. Conversely, older societies are entirely dominated by farming and everything else is the tip of the iceberg. It's only in very recent times that farming has become a small part of the population. In history, probably nothing has caused turmoil more often than problems with food.
So imagine an agrarian society that is in a world with magic and somebody comes up with a way to produce more food. This could be by increasing crop yields - blessing the fields or something. Or could be with improved irrigation or flood management. Let's say this doubles food production per area of land. Now you can have double the population within that area. Let's say someone comes up with a way to make golems that magically farm the land for you and now you only need about 10% of population to be farmers.
It's not hard to imagine a country coming up with such methods would go on to dominate the world since they'd have an immense advantage - you could turn almost the entire population into soldiers. In turn, I've pretty much never seen this come up in fantasy, or only on a small scale. I don't think many people realise just how much previous periods were dominated by farming. Only total morons wouldn't care about food production or ways to increase food production.
We always see people selling Magic Cores of monsters easily, sometimes for astronomical price
But somehow we rarely see those Cores being used by anyone
Yup.
sasuke706
2020-03-07, 20:42
We always see people selling Magic Cores of monsters easily, sometimes for astronomical price
But somehow we rarely see those Cores being used by anyoneThere's a few stories that make use of them. Mind you in those stories they end up being an all-purpose extremely convenient energy source.
The MC in 呪術師は勇者になれない finds a use for them besides the 'key item' use to proceed to new areas. モブ高生の俺でも冒険者になればリア充になれますか？ also goes on and on about how useful they are in modern society that doesn't even have magic.
In other news, I looked at the rankings for the first time in a while and noticed パワハラ幼馴染ざまぁ is apparently the new fad. Pretty much barely one step up from the previous fad of being expelled from some party or another, just this time by relatively cruel childhood 'friends.' Like getting tried of cherry flavor and going for a cherry with a hint of strawberry added in.
I suppose before that it was 'useless' old men getting expelled instead so I guess it's just following a trend.
^That's what I meant before, when I started looking for new novels, these novels appeared with almost no change "my childhood friend teased me with her abuse of power, so I get away from her and now I'm the most powerful yay-"
Before, the cores were important since they were catalysts for everything related to magic. The cores are now only batteries or their use is simply ignored from the start or when they are needed.
^Even if it's useful for the creation of magic item, that means the demand is limited, and there's no way cores will always be needed everywhere at stable prices
モブ高生の俺でも冒険者になればリア充になれますか？ also goes on and on about how useful they are in modern society that doesn't even have magic.
lmao
Sells like crazy yet rarely find it's application in society
That's not how economy works
In other news, I looked at the rankings for the first time in a while and noticed パワハラ幼馴染ざまぁ is apparently the new fad.
Stop with this one-trick pony
^ It might be that those cores are just simply too rare and so they are mainly used by nobles and military, meaning that MC (usualy adventurer) rarely gets into contact with the finished product.
Also, it might be, that local nobles are incentivizing killing monsters by keeping the price of their cores relatively high and stable. It's always good to have the potential criminals (adventurers) go and kill them thus get rid of two problems.
^The incentive is a nice idea
Tho the characters in the story itself don't seem to notice this, they just treat cores like gold or something
And it seems to be global thing instead of local since the price is the same everywhere (e.g. goblin core is 1 silver everywhere)
I can see the incentive thing being exploited to single out and destroy a noble tho
Kill monsters and get the cores in many different places and then sell ALL OF THEM to the territory of the fucked noble
Economy destroyed in an instant
^ I think the low-grade ones (goblins etc.) are often mentioned as main ingredients for potions (especially mana potions) which are in high demand (adventurers buy them, the army would definitely love to stockpile a bunch and it's consumable). The problem are usually high-grade ones.
If it were up to me I would make sure the low-grade ones are bought at about market price with minimal profit to the buyer (also guaranteeing long term price) and incentivize the high-grade ones with some policy in place stating it only applies to locally harvested. Of course in normal times it is close to impossible to check from where the cores are, but it should make the thing you mentioned almost impossible.
It would be interesting to read novels where the power scale is represented visually and cannot be permanently hidden, like some "visual effect" and that with greater power this effect is accentuated, single-colored eyes that emanate something, an aura around as in Ragnarok Online physical changes, "elements" floating around.
I think I read some novels where high amount of magic caused hair to turn silver and the more silver it was the stronger (potentially, as that doesn't represent fighting ability, just raw power) the person.
That is the most significant change that is used
A change that if it does'nt affect the plot then it's useless
it's just like dyeing one's hair.
On the other hand
Please some novel with an assertive protagonist as long as it's not the perverted or comic type.
I think I read some novels where high amount of magic caused hair to turn silver and the more silver it was the stronger (potentially, as that doesn't represent fighting ability, just raw power) the person.
Yes, it's dumb
Another way to find out is if the equipment is pay to win
Btw
Many once great but dead novels are resurfacing, but I just lost the will to resume reading them
Like Kurokami no Ou, also the one where people's hair indicates magic power
dragon1412
2020-03-08, 21:03
You are just following too much novels erotora.
sasuke706
2020-03-08, 21:31
Btw
Many once great but dead novels are resurfacing, but I just lost the will to resume reading themI have that problem all the time. I'll often let a novel just sit on my bookmarks for some time and if I can't be assed to read it after a while, I just write it off as not that good and get rid of it.
And if they have an extremely unreliable update record then it's automatically out the window. They have to have a pretty interesting novel for me to keep up with it when they do that shit, like Vermilion.
Sometimes I'll throw them on the second or third bookmark pages (since 400 is the max for update listing for reasons beyond any sane human's understanding) where I honestly just never check and forget about them.
^Even Vermillion can't rekindle my will to resume
^^Following...
Now that I think of it, the ones I actually followed are not many
What I like to do is binge reading
After reaching the latest chapter, lazy to follow the updates
It's easier to start reading a new novel
cabman11
2020-03-09, 21:45
Anyone else notice the latest trend of "dumping the tsundere(soon to be yandere) childhood friend" novels lately?
What is this? Some new bandwagon everyone's jumping on.
I mean, it's not like I hate it. I'm enjoying the shit out of it
My favorite is this one. https://ncode.syosetu.com/n2427gb/
小悪魔な幼馴染と距離を置こうとしたら、幼馴染が俺の奴隷になってしまった
Despite the title, it's not hentai. But it's getting there as his sanity slowly chips away
Ruki0089
2020-03-09, 22:16
What's it about?
Edit.
Just read first 5 chapters. Good novel and not cliché.
I always hate tsundere
And this should be in Nocturnes:heh:
Author gonna got trouble thanks to this.
Stop Guilt tripping people to pity the MC
What, you got NTR-ed? In your previous life you had incurable diseases?
You must be the most pitiful person in the universe BOOHOOHOO
Thus your revenge and anything are justified!
It's like bandits' argument of killing rich people because they have money and bandits don't
Ruki0089
2020-03-10, 00:51
Ero Tora:heh:
I know you will rant about this!
cabman11
2020-03-10, 03:33
Stop Guilt tripping people to pity the MC
What, you got NTR-ed? In your previous life you had incurable diseases?
You must be the most pitiful person in the universe BOOHOOHOO
Thus your revenge and anything are justified!
It's like bandits' argument of killing rich people because they have money and bandits don't
What are you talkin about?
^
The thing with ZAMAA of Hero NTR-ing childhood friend or Engagement Annulled by Prince
Unless it's through Hypnosis/Mind Control or very elaborate evil scheme, doesn't justify the MC for taking revenge on those people
I read many novels where bad things happened to those people despite it's just pure romance rivalry
-Girl choosing Hero over farm boy is logical
(Of course later the farm boy did an awakening and become True Hero LMAO)
-Another girl stole the prince and Engagement Annulled
(Usually the MC doesn't really love the prince anyway, and even if she did, the fact that another girl normally stole the prince begs us the question of her qualification as future Queen)
MC lost in a pure rivalry, why paint the opposite party as villainous
Made me remember Coiling Dragon, the first heroine Alice never found happiness coz she chose another guy over the MC (Guy is dead in the wedding day coz stomped by random monster lmao, and she became merchant)
cabman11
2020-03-10, 08:10
Okay I've seen that word over and over again. But I still can't seem to be able to translate it properly. what does zamaa mean?
Ero Tora:heh:
I know you will rant about this!
I'd rather want to rant about my web novel progress that comes to a halt since I barely got ideas to advance it e.e
^Rant away
Okay I've seen that word over and over again. But I still can't seem to be able to translate it properly. what does zamaa mean?
It literally means "KARMA, BITCH!"
Anyway, I will open you guys' eyes through this generic story :
1. Girl dumped farm boy MC
2. MC awoken Super Power
3. MC did adventure and make princesses and hole maidens fall for him
Now to the hypocritical part
4. Those princesses fell for the MC because he is super powerful now
5. They are not gonna fall for some random farm boy
6. So these princesses did the same thing as the first girl, thus she did nothing wrong
And the even more hypocritical truth
7. After becoming super powerful, the MC married princesses and goddesses instead of random farm girl
8. Of course authors camouflaged this by making the MC "accidentally" meeting princesses and saving them instead of lowly village girls
9. Nevertheless, it just confirms that choosing "better" lover is correct, but they are just not being honest about it
10. In the end, the MC is the same as the girl who dumped him so he has no justification to vilify her
^Rant away
It literally means "KARMA, BITCH!"
Anyway, I will open you guys' eyes through this generic story :
1. Girl dumped farm boy MC
2. MC awoken Super Power
3. MC did adventure and make princesses and hole maidens fall for him
Now to the hypocritical part
4. Those princesses fell for the MC because he is super powerful now
5. They are not gonna fall for some random farm boy
6. So these princesses did the same thing as the first girl, thus she did nothing wrong
And the even more hypocritical truth
7. After becoming super powerful, the MC married princesses and goddesses instead of random farm girl
8. Of course authors camouflaged this by making the MC "accidentally" meeting princesses and saving them instead of lowly village girls
9. Nevertheless, it just confirms that choosing "better" lover is correct, but they are just not being honest about it
10. In the end, the MC is the same as the girl who dumped him so he has no justification to vilify her
What!?
You mean most web novels are poorly thought out power fantasies!?
Say it ain't so Erotora!
:heh:
^Maybe the authors themselves don't realize they are writing power fantasy
Coz the victim mentality is so strong
Anyway, I don't like the justification they are going for
Not many MCs (authors) realize that they are horrible people
Kinda want an MC that is honest saying "I want to marry the most beautiful person on the world"
True great people like in The Three Kingdoms did that
More MCs like them instead of pussies japanese pliz
^Maybe the authors themselves don't realize they are writing power fantasy
Coz the victim mentality is so strong
Anyway, I don't like the justification they are going for
Not many MCs (authors) realize that they are horrible people
Kinda want an MC that is honest saying "I want to marry the most beautiful person on the world"
True great people like in The Three Kingdoms did that
More MCs like them instead of pussies japanese pliz
I wonder why it never occurs to anyone to actually write themselves as the cool guy in school or anything. :heh:
I love underdog stories as much as the next guy but if you're going to have the world kneel at your feet, just do it from the beginning.
^Doesn't need to be cool, but at least not a hypocrite
The worst offender is Slowlife MCs
Since he wants slowlife, you'd think he's gonna move to a remote village and marry a farm girl or something low-key like that, right?
No No No No! His harem will consist of Goddesses, Princesses, Hole Maidens, Dragon Girls, Etc Etc
Good luck trying to have slowlife with that lineup
(Bullshit)
Also later that group will have a picnic somewhere and found injustice being done to the people (slavery etc)
They will lament how cruel and unfair the world is
Which is funny coz this is coming from the literal world's strongest group
Who neglected their responsibilities and isolated themselves in remote place to have fun slowlife
What a bunch of A-holes
^Doesn't need to be cool, but at least not a hypocrite
The worst offender is Slowlife MCs
Since he wants slowlife, you'd think he's gonna move to a remote village and marry a farm girl or something low-key like that, right?
No No No No! His harem will consist of Goddesses, Princesses, Hole Maidens, Dragon Girls, Etc Etc
Good luck trying to have slowlife with that lineup
(Bullshit)
Also later that group will have a picnic somewhere and found injustice being done to the people (slavery etc)
They will lament how cruel and unfair the world is
Which is funny coz this is coming from the literal world's strongest group
Who neglected their responsibilities and isolated themselves in remote place to have fun slowlife
What a bunch of A-holes
I prefer the ones like Isekai Nobiri Nouka where everyone else actively tries to prevent the MC from getting too involved in the rest of the world because of how powerful he and his village is. :heh:
sasuke706
2020-03-10, 12:30
The worst offender is Slowlife MCsThe problem I have with slow life isn't the heroine choice or cozy life setting, or even the nonsensical world setting where a farmer becomes the world's strongest because he just is, it's the lack of interesting character interactions and development. Like Slice of Life, the entire story is character driven. But the characters are always so goddamn boring and one dimensional. They have a weird trait and that trait is their entire personality and character. That's all they are. The protagonist is no different despite that he's supposed to be the character closest to the reader. You barely get to know him despite him being the MC as there's simply no rapport.
The only moment of interest is when a new character is introduced; they're interesting for maybe 3 chapters before falling under the same issues as the previous characters.
I've said it before but it's just substituting proper characterization with comedy and tropes. Slow life just has no substance.
The problem I have with slow life isn't the heroine choice or cozy life setting, or even the nonsensical world setting where a farmer becomes the world's strongest because he just is, it's the lack of interesting character interactions and development. Like Slice of Life, the entire story is character driven. But the characters are always so goddamn boring and one dimensional. They have a weird trait and that trait is their entire personality and character. That's all they are. The protagonist is no different despite that he's supposed to be the character closest to the reader. You barely get to know him despite him being the MC as there's simply no rapport.
The only moment of interest is when a new character is introduced; they're interesting for maybe 3 chapters before falling under the same issues as the previous characters.
I've said it before but it's just substituting proper characterization with comedy and tropes. Slow life just has no substance.
If you think it from another way
The characters are boring, because the environment is boring
How do people know how the characters will behave in various situations if ALL THEY ARE DOING IS JUST DICKING AROUND IN THAT BORING FARM!?
I prefer the ones like Isekai Nobiri Nouka where everyone else actively tries to prevent the MC from getting too involved in the rest of the world because of how powerful he and his village is. :heh:
I really want to nuke that boring place
sasuke706
2020-03-10, 13:23
When you remove the plot factor from a story you gotta make up for it in other ways, in this case characterization. Proper characters can make that boring, commonplace farm relatively interesting. They just don't. Which means they need a plot to drive these boring puppets, but the entire premise of the story throws that out the window.
Like look at authors like Nisio and Narita. Their novels have plot, yes, but it's the characters that really shine in their stories. Rather, the characters make up the plot.
Pervert Healer was also basically a slow life setting but had nice characters to carry it.
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-10, 13:59
Okay I've seen that word over and over again. But I still can't seem to be able to translate it properly. what does zamaa mean?
This has been answered already but here's a more technical version:
It's normally written in katakana but the "proper" version of the word is zamaa-miro ("zamaa" is a shortened version): 様あ見ろ
Dictionary translation is "serves you right" but it's normally used more caustically, in the sense of "loser!" or "you got what you deserve!"
In a literary / story perspective, a "zamaa" scenario would basically be a "comeuppance" scenario. Or the MC achieving their revenge.
Regarding the topic of guns in isekai:
I highly doubt that they will ever developed. At least to the point of modern weapons, even when you are a king/tyrant.
The reason is the following (in my opinion):
The first weapons with gunpowder and lead bullets where rarely fatal (exept when hitting the head). Someone said before that even a thick vest could stop a bullet with a bit of distance. Meaning relativ low killing power.
Makes it hard to justify spending a lot of money for that.
The next point would be getting enough craftsmen and a constant stream of materials. In most isekai stories the level of civilization is at the medieval level. Meaning small closed off communities, craftsmen guarding their techniques and so on. If now the kingdom comes and takes away most of the skilled craftsmen, most weapons (e.g. swords) would be of lower quality and that would lead to more deaths from monster attacks if not the destruction of whole villages due to the abscence of someone who can make/repair the weapons. Nobels would most certainly protest if the damage to their territories increase. I doubt many people will stay quiet when the precious metals are used for seemingly useless toys. Even more so when it potentially means having to give up an whole mine since that kind of development is carried out in secrecy.
Next would be magic and the body of the residents of that world. I think everyone knows those first status screens where the MC is told that his body is weaker than the general person. Now think for a moment. Most of the time the MC physical abilities are around 1-2 while the general person is about 4-5 at level 1. That would mean that person is about 2-4 times(!) stronger than him. In Numbers MC can lift 40kg at Str(2). Villager A with Str(5) can lift 100kg. Twice the defense means guns would need twice the power to damage the villager. A gun that causes a flesh wound on the MC would probably only cause a small cut or bruise on the villager. Now introduce a level system and you can forget the guns. And even without the levels magic alone can make all gun development meaningless. Most magic systems include physical boost or wall type defenses. Meaning a magician (or everyone else if magic is available to anyone) only need to strengthen their bodies or raise a wall before the shooting start and wait for the guns to be out of ammo.
And let's not getting started about standardization, hostage situations of craftsmen and family members, new assaination variety and and and.
The only way guns and their subsequent iteriations will ever get developed is when:
- Magic is nothing more a convinience and not usable as a means of attack
- The bodies of isekai residents are almost the same as an earthlings
- Cheap access to craftsmen and materials AND enough power to kill moderate threaths (e.g. goblins and orcs) that usually would require skilled professionals
- There exist no threaths that a gun can't at least damage e.g. dragons that can destroy a whole village in minutes and subsequently people who can get enough power to fight these threaths (We will never be able to throw cars no matter how hard we train)
- There exists a way better explosive that gunpowder and the materials needed to withstand these explosions are commonly available. Nobody wants the guns exploding into their face because the material failed ( Random thought: If magic crystals where the material for the explosive it could explain the constant need).
And if you as a king want to develop guns for your army you probably arent very strong physically which means you probably won't live very long if you force your way through.
That's why I find them very misplaced in isekai stories and feel quite annoyed when they are displayed as some almighty artifact that let's you win all your battles easily.
Sorry for this wall of text and my english (it's not my mother tongue).
^Small correction about the farmer boy vs hero, most contradictions told before are true but there is a small thing you are omitting, girl is farmer's fiance, hero appears and she drops farmer like used gum, while she's free to love whoever she pleases cancelling a compromise like that is at least reproachable.I admit that Jap author's NTR definition is wider than ours since it compromises not only real relationships but imagined or perceived ones, but at least when there's real NTR it's normal for people to pity the MC and hate the thot.
It would be good to see a isekai novel where the protagonist is a exchange student from the west
and is destroying all the beliefs of the Japanese supposed to be protagonist.
-Food
-Hygiene
-Weapons (there is more variety than just a katana)
-Technology
-Ethics/moral
-NTR (netori, like in this NTRファンタジー-勇者の股間の剣- )
Or a Westerner in an oriental version Isekai, there the use of kindness would create a harem more easily.
Remembering now, in noc there are several novels with Koreans and Chinese as protagonists who NTR-ed to the japanese
It would be good to see a isekai novel where the protagonist is a exchange student from the west
and is destroying all the beliefs of the Japanese supposed to be protagonist.
-Food
-Hygiene
-Weapons (there is more variety than just a katana)
-Technology
-Ethics/moral
-NTR (netori, like in this NTRファンタジー-勇者の股間の剣- )
Or a Westerner in an oriental version Isekai, there the use of kindness would create a harem more easily.
Remembering now, in noc there are several novels with Koreans and Chinese as protagonists who NTR-ed to the japanese
I think the concept of a foreigner one-upping a native reeks of white man's burden. If you just want to see the japanese mc's hypocrisy pointed out then it'd be best to have another japanese character do it.
I think the concept of a foreigner one-upping a native reeks of white man's burden. If you just want to see the japanese mc's hypocrisy pointed out then it'd be best to have another japanese character do it.
Uh, the japanese "uplifting" the natives of isekai is the "white mans burden" in that situation. Having a foreigner point that out hardly counts, which is what Garn seemed to be suggesting.
Or repatriated, if the character is still a native Japanese this would not contribute anything other than "commenting (tsukkomi)" but without any depth or repercussion and that the culture shock would be lost.
The point is to have someone stop the nonsense of the Japanese protagonist and the cliche of a medieval era super primitive used in all the novels, the best thing would be that this was pointed out by someone from the western part, part that is always shown as less than barbarians.
This while being a common Isekai and the protagonist would simply make the "zamaa" to the Japanese protagonist.
^A lot of authors make their MC's social outcast in the Isekai, think about it they almost never interact with the people, while conveniently adapting Isekai morals they always keep that pretentious moral superiority made possible because of cheats, if they started with a more modest pack (skills,equipment etc...) I'm sure they'd kill trick and doubt people like other characters do.
^That is only a minor component compared to how always some Japanese component permeate easily (example: any otaku culture or food) and is glorified, while the Isekai version of the western medieval culture is very primitive, dumb and in need of a messiah.
Event:
The character who represents the typical protagonist (hetare/donkan) who always makes the heroine(s) wait, sees how the most assertive MC "collects" her (them) or the heroines themselves get tired of waiting
The Japanese need to be taught more freedom and democracy YIIIHAAW
Eddio literal wall of text
You are correct
Of course the story would be different if they figure out how to increase the power of guns using magic
-------------------------
Btw, why is FIREBALL the most common fire magic?
If you want to capitalize on the BURNING part, you'd want the magic to behave like a flamethrower
So like Dragon's Fire Breath, so maybe Fire Wave? Fire Stream?
Literally never heard of such magic
It's always Ball Ball Ball even for other elements
Super Compression of Air in Wind Ball should be Advanced Magic, but it's classified as elementary because it's still a fucking BALL
MY BALLS!!!!!!!!!!
^
That made me think
If it is only the element.
The fire is the weakest of the 4 common elements
-The fire ball is materialized by magic and needs this to extend the duration
I think the fire has less than half the weight of the air and its impact would not cause a reaction comparable to the other 3 since the mass is almost nil
Only fire cannot be normally compressed
-An air ball is simply compressed air with an instantaneous and destructive effect but with a need for magic to maintain it
An extended effect would need a constant flow but this air is denser from the start
It can be compressed and this compression far exceeds the others, molded and a normal cancellation would result in destruction
The air temperature increases this gap.
-The earth ball is pure mass and once materialized it does not need a constant consumption of magic beyond movement
Its nature is already compressed mass and with a damage capacity dependent on the mass and speed
The constant use of mana is only for the movement of the mass that by itself already does damage
The fire could not destroy something that has greater mass and that its thermal conductivity resists fire enough to extinguish it if it's not constant and with great temperature.
The earth temperature increases this gap.
-The water ball shares almost everything with that of the earth but with less mass and external resistance, iits compression is more elaborate
As with the earth the fire would need to have an effect instantly to be effective against water who already brings a moving mass and cannot be used as fuel
The water temperature increases this gap.
If magic can make a compressed fire, then the other elements would also be even more compressed.
If the fire explodes magically, then the other elements will explode magically.
If the nature of fire increases magically, then the nature of the other elements will increase magically.
All elements resist fire in one on one
Fire is considered plasma but it is not comparable to lightning or stars
^So scientific~
Air Ball = Rasengan
And Naruto World acknowledged that it's an advanced technique
Water Ball is understandable since floating droplets will merge into larger one
But Fire Ball is questionable
I mean if the development of civilization is natural
The first instance of fire power in history would be things like forest fire
If people try to imitate natural power into magic it should be Fire Wall or Fire Breath initially
But if the question do we need perfect magic sytem (hard system), I say no
Nasuverse where every family conceal their techniques is fun too
If we are trying to devise a reason for fireballs being optimal I would suggest this: continuous mana output is hard and so is projecting magic too far from your body. This will lead to the need for "throwing" some condensed object. Some kind of deformed ball is actually pretty logical for a thing that you want to easily mold and throw, not even speaking about compression.
As for the firepower, of course if it is literally a puff of fire it has almost no damaging properties. For all we know it might be a highly heated compressed air or a ball of napalm (actually the fireballs are mostly behaving as a mix between the two).
As for XYBall being the basic technique, it might be something like basic techniques comprising of wrapping your mana around the thing with a string attached, let it compress a bit on it's own and then fling it with the string (while letting go).
^
Controlling mana as ball makes sense, but when it's already converted into elements, it kills their strong points instead
I read one where they use lightning ball lmao
It's faster when it's in bolt form dumbass
dragon1412
2020-03-11, 13:56
^
Controlling mana as ball makes sense, but when it's already converted into elements, it kills their strong points instead
I read one where they use lightning ball lmao
It's faster when it's in bolt form dumbass
to be fair, ball lightning actually exist in reality as an phenomenon. though as weapon, the only thing that it superior to lightning bolt is the fact that it last a lot longer.
^
Controlling mana as ball makes sense, but when it's already converted into elements, it kills their strong points instead
I read one where they use lightning ball lmao
It's faster when it's in bolt form dumbass
Uh, ball lightning would actually be significantly more dangerous than just a bolt of equal strength.
Are you guys crazy!?
The ball is travelling at the same speed as Fireball!
Are you guys crazy!?
The ball is travelling at the same speed as Fireball!
That's why it's more dangerous. A bolt of lightning hitting you is actually not likely to be fatal despite being far hotter than normal fire because of how quickly it travels through you. The biggest danger is it doing something to your heart iirc.
Ball lightning has somewhat lesser heat but will pass through you much slower. It'd literally be getting hit with a ball of plasma, you'd be lucky if your bones were left over.
^You are insane, you know that?
This is Lightning Ball as in the lowest type of magic same as all other BALLS
It doesn't work the OP way you imagined
The advantage of bolt is its speed. Once it reaches sufficient strength, it's fatal. There's no point to extra power in ball form.
That depends, all lightning used as an attack should be life threatening but this never happens and less when the MC uses it.
Lightning magic is already considered superior magic, even at the beginner level as a ball, obviously bolt-shaped it would be greater
The magic of lightning is highly underrated, even only in the form of a ball it is already dangerous
It's a "lightning", a person with just sticking his finger in the socket already experiences a reaction that is not a joke,
it's stupid to put a lightning at the level of a stun gun which in prolonged use is deadly,
now put that into something that apart from being mostly charged it also carries plasma.
It might simply be extremely hard to direct a real lightning bolt (by nature it tends to hit the nearest conducting thing... so you). A good story point would be, that all the ball magics are just concentrated elemental mana and the effects (like the fireball burning etc.) are just small amounts leaking and turning into magic effects. When the ball hits something all the trapped elemental mana gets released at once and wreaks havoc (fireballs exploding, lighting zapping you etc.).
^You are insane, you know that?
This is Lightning Ball as in the lowest type of magic same as all other BALLS
It doesn't work the OP way you imagined
Weren't we talking about why things were "unrealistic"? :heh:
Ball lightning is super dangerous, so if they actually managed to make it then "realistically" it'd be more dangerous than a bolt.
The advantage of bolt is its speed. Once it reaches sufficient strength, it's fatal. There's no point to extra power in ball form.
Except that a ball lightning could kill with significantly less energy because of the difference in the way they work.
Speaking about problems of a lightning bolt, it takes about 30k Volts to make it through 1cm of air (unionized but that doesn't matter for the first one), meaning to get a bit decent range of 5m you would need 15MV. Just for comparison, the highest voltage used for long-distance energy transmission is 0.5MV. Now I doubt a kid that just started learning magic is able to achieve such insane voltages, I even less think such a novice is capable of not killing himself with it and even if such a genius existed... any other mage (or archer or even kid throwing stones) could just kite him with many times longer range, not even speaking about just sticking a sword into the ground in front of you making it much, much harder to actually hit you.
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-12, 17:49
Heh, all this discussion kinda makes me want to say: Just ask D (from "kumo desu ga, nani ka") to hack reality and make all damage equivalent and all damage be "attribute damage". With her "System", even liquid poison is basically just water tagged with "poison damage" and real poisons are eliminated. Freaky stuff!
But yeah... all sorts of problems with damage equivalency. One option would be that the power could be scaled such that the damage output is similar for the same "level" but that'd mean the mana costs would be different instead. And indeed, if we're dealing with real actual fire, electricity etc rather than magic sfx that simply resembles them, then you'll have to deal with real physical effects too.
Random other thought 1: in worlds with levels etc why are older adventurers (like 50 years plus equivalent human) so very rare? If you've survived that long your level, stats and skills should be insane. Sure, they might be in semi-retirement or something but if everyone levels at the same rate (other things being equal) then those levelling for longer should have the advantage, but this almost never comes across.
Random other thought 2: why are adventurer guilds always so vanilla? Why not have guilds run by rival companies? Or a setting where the guild and adventurers used their combined combat ability to take over a country. Or even something like the guild takes in orphans and raises them to be adventurers instead of the church run orphanages (which are always poor since they have no way to raise money).
^
Random other thought 1: Yep, it should be older > stronger
In fact, in a world with actual level-up system, anyone will be compelled to kill monsters on daily basis
Random other thought 2: Guild being weird I said about it before, it should be the strongest faction in the world in it's Vanilla State
Weren't we talking about why things were "unrealistic"? :heh:
Ball lightning is super dangerous, so if they actually managed to make it then "realistically" it'd be more dangerous than a bolt.
No dummy
We were talking why the hell all Ball-type magic classified as low-level magic despite clearly with higher difficulty
It should be Stream-type that is low-level since it's just unleashing it in front of you
You know, like Avatar the element bender, their basic attack is streaming the element in a direction
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-12, 20:11
^
Random other thought 1: Yep, it should be older > stronger
In fact, in a world with actual level-up system, anyone will be compelled to kill monsters on daily basis
It's free power-up for life after all. Should help people be healthier, more productive, etc. If setting is world where monsters only breed though normal biology (ie no auto-respawn) it should even be possible to hunt them to extinction.
Conversely, if possible, farm them and then harvest for exp! Humans would definitely try that sort of thing...
Random other thought 2: Guild being weird I said about it before, it should be the strongest faction in the world in it's Vanilla State
Yep. Imagine an international church except all the believers are combat specialists. Totally safe. Honest.
It would be great to see an Isekai that is beginning to be besieged by cosmic terrors or some alien race (technological or biological)
Or a protagonist who, the more powerful his powers become, begins to look like a cosmic terror or terrifying component like Alucard.
It would be great to see an Isekai that is beginning to be besieged by cosmic terrors or some alien race (technological or biological)
Or a protagonist who, the more powerful his powers become, begins to look like a cosmic terror or terrifying component like Alucard.
I recall there was an isekai where the mc was reborn as a dungeon core with an alien theme.
It's free power-up for life after all. Should help people be healthier, more productive, etc. If setting is world where monsters only breed though normal biology (ie no auto-respawn) it should even be possible to hunt them to extinction.
Conversely, if possible, farm them and then harvest for exp! Humans would definitely try that sort of thing...
Also don't forget that KILLING OTHER PEOPLE also gives EXP!
Yay!
And the "Metal Slime Tactic"! Even just damaging a very high level entity will increase low-level by a whole lot!
So, you know, use dirty methods to kidnap high ranking female adventurer then gangbang torture her
1 girl 99999 perverts
FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Yep. Imagine an international church except all the believers are combat specialists. Totally safe. Honest.
Totally safe bro :heh:
It would be great to see an Isekai that is beginning to be besieged by cosmic terrors or some alien race (technological or biological)
Or a protagonist who, the more powerful his powers become, begins to look like a cosmic terror or terrifying component like Alucard.
Demons are usually from another dimension anyway, what's the difference
Monstrosity MC? Nobody would read that
^
Non-humanoid and more terror-oriented entities, demons are already mere existences like elves and dwarves.
Not the protagonist, but his ability or power.
It can be as simple as using body parts to create temporary creatures:
"The MC tears off his hand and throws it to the ground, this hand grows and while the nails transform into claws and a mouth grows in the lower part, in the part from where it was torn off it will continue to bleed and from this blood more of the same type will come out but smaller"
Sounds like the MC from 四度目は嫌な死属性魔術師 ;D
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-13, 08:01
It would be great to see an Isekai that is beginning to be besieged by cosmic terrors or some alien race (technological or biological)
Or a protagonist who, the more powerful his powers become, begins to look like a cosmic terror or terrifying component like Alucard.
How about MC is reincarnated from Earth to fantasy world... only to find it's set centuries in the future and the Earth is now invading that fantasy world after Earth expanded out into the universe :heh:
(ie make Earth the "big bad")
^^
It is the only one that comes to mind, but the terrifying component decays when it is almost a secret that only the enemies know and the allies don't care about.
^
That would be refreshing, a reversal of "earth invasion by an advanced civilization based on something magical."
I would love to see a fantasy world in the middle of being overrun by monsters. Not demon army or such, just oceans of monsters. To specify, being overrun means the human living space is slowly shrinking, cities and fortresses on the borders can just randomly get overrun every once in a while. It would make a great story for the MC (reincarnated or not) to appear there in such times when already a significant part is overrun (1/2-2/3) and having to do something about it. Best if he was a noble (could have personal power, but not god level, just strong).
^
It could also be good that the MC arrives shortly before everything starts and goes through all the fall events of each city and fortress (as in Kuro no Maou at the beginning),
And maybe instead of nobility a special military rank would be better, after all the countries will be falling or going into ruin.
I would love to see a fantasy world in the middle of being overrun by monsters. Not demon army or such, just oceans of monsters. To specify, being overrun means the human living space is slowly shrinking, cities and fortresses on the borders can just randomly get overrun every once in a while. It would make a great story for the MC (reincarnated or not) to appear there in such times when already a significant part is overrun (1/2-2/3) and having to do something about it. Best if he was a noble (could have personal power, but not god level, just strong).
That's Chrome Shelled Regios LMAO
Also Muv-Luv Alternative series
Not really, CSR is a post-apocalyptic stable scenario and I don't know much about MLA, but I also don't exactly love mecha.
I meant something more of the typical isekai template (swords and magic kind), but monsters being about 10 times more numerous and more aggressive leading to a blob of uninhabited lands full of monsters that is slowly expanding. A scenario where humans are genuinely going to lose all land in something like 10-50 years if things continue at this pace (no 1 big invasion, just continuous encroaching on living space).
^ While not fully isekai, the chinese novel Versatile Mage is pretty close to that. Alternate version of Earth where magic replaces science and humanity is in constant war with monsters, with several regions of the world being untouched by man due to the monsters there being too abundant and/or too strong.
Yeah, I read that one, though it pretty much steers away from that later on.
From what I've read of spoilers, there are arcs later on after the MC reaches super tier that involve a world-wide sea monster invasion.
Versatile Mage... sigh
Despite the threat of monsters is very real, arrogant people swagging around is still a thing
Oh btw, regarding that, new rant
"People saved by the MC ONCE, will be safe forever"
In his adventures, MC will save some people (from usually minor threats)
And those people
Either they will never face such threat again, or MC will save them again and again
Practically making them safe forever, which is unrealistic at all
A thing in JP, not as much as in CN
I've just read Martial Peak Manhua
There the MC saved a girl and her family from villains
Then they separated
Later, MC met the girl's mom again
It turns out that the girl got raped and died
Which is sad, but when the hero left, it's easy for such things to happen again
How many times MC will be in time to save a carriage from being attacked?
^
Although different, I have a problem related to that.
The MC is forced to help in one way or another,
-Whether the character tells t the MC a summary out of nowhere
-Whether the MC is releasing a monologue about why to help or not
-Whether the MC refuses but quickly changes his mind
Etc.
It's really difficult to put an MC who really wants to help just for the sake of helping, because can or wants to make the effort
Instead of praising an MC who always complains about not wanting to stand out or be dragged
^
With great power comes great responsibility, right?
Problem is, MC's power is The Power of Literal GOD
Especially prick like Satou who has Active Map, can literally lock on enemies kilometers away and nuke them, while still on the fricking map interface
If you don't help people with that kind of power then you're just a jerk
Of course self-aware jerk MC is always welcomed
On that note, recommend me an OP MC but with very specific OP-ness
Like if he's a crafter, then even if he's OP in combat, it's because of his crafted items
Or a Sniper, which is bad in close combat
^ That's actually a mindset that gets on my nerves in many novels. It's one thing to help people just because you want to, but the is no obligation to help others just because you are strong. Did the others pay you for it? Did they help you to get the power? If yes then you definitely should help them, otherwise something like "Have to become a slave to their need just because I can do what they want" is stupid, especially when directed to strangers.
Did the others pay you for it?
Japanese MCs aspiring to become adventurer is forgetting the most important rule of being adventurer "Accept the quest if the price is right" is funny :heh:
Btw, I rarely see MC haggles in any transactions
Well, usually in 1 week the MCs will figure out a way to get infinite money tho
(creating magic stones)(plagiarism)(etc)
^ Speaking about "When the price is right" thing. I seem to oftentimes see the trope of MC taking on the underpaid, bad and stale quests and feel great about himself how he is doing some greater good but has any of those guys thought about the impact on other adventurers? The jobs are collecting dust because the pay isn't appropriate for the work (whether it is because of difficulty or just the amount of trouble). If the quests will be fulfilled even with terrible pay no one is gonna be stupid enough to post quest with decent remuneration soon.
^Damn right
So often seeing guild receptionists thanking MCs for taking unwanted quests
Fricking MCs should join the Knight Order instead if they want to uphold justice
These Jap MCs are actually as detestable as those noble kids that become adventurers just for playing around
^Bad or cheap quests are also used as punishment for crimes within the guild or as a way to gain their favor so they let you in especial dungeons or hunting places not well know or hidden by the own guild.
^Oh yeah, that's a thing, very very rarely tho
Anyone reads FFF-Class Trashero?
The MC is evil, he exploited the level up system by killing his annoying comrades for experience
Also killed high level slaves he bought
In conclusion, if this system can be exploited, it will, and RPG-type isekai would be so chaotic
Seeing "I am the Sorcerer King"
I would like to see a stage like that but in a fantasy world
Where the MC gradually levels up individually and (magitech)nologically
But the world also becomes more chaotic
OMG, almost all modern cultivation story suck!
Every one of them eventually show the same plot that everything blends together and can't be differentiated!
Copy Paste Shit Shows!
The developments that always happen :
-MC awakens cheat cultivation power
-Helps a girl which turns out from prestigious family
-Girl's fiance tries to kill MC
-Fiance defeated, he asked for help from his father, uncle, grandfather, etc etc, sending assassins etc
-Girl kidnapped etc but all defeated eventually
-MC randomly walks around town and encountered more girls that need help, repeat the suitors retaliation arc
-Once in a while, curing old influential people getting backers and money
-Lots of money in fact, immediately going shopping
-But the shopkeepers look down on him thinking he's poor shod
-MC shows off by buying the entire shop (retarded)
Ruki0089
2020-03-16, 23:25
OMG, almost all modern cultivation story suck!
Every one of them eventually show the same plot that everything blends together and can't be differentiated!
Copy Paste Shit Shows!
The developments that always happen :
-MC awakens cheat cultivation power
-Helps a girl which turns out from prestigious family
-Girl's fiance tries to kill MC
-Fiance defeated, he asked for help from his father, uncle, grandfather, etc etc, sending assassins etc
-Girl kidnapped etc but all defeated eventually
-MC randomly walks around town and encountered more girls that need help, repeat the suitors retaliation arc
-Once in a while, curing old influential people getting backers and money
-Lots of money in fact, immediately going shopping
-But the shopkeepers look down on him thinking he's poor shod
-MC shows off by buying the entire shop (retarded)
Dude, that's Chinese novel cliché, it's everywhere and very absolute to them.
What do you expect?:heh:
^It's fucking trash
There are always events whenever MC walks around town
-Purse Snatcher
-Gang wanna Bang
-Hostage Situation
Fuck! And that's in city center area!
Ruki0089
2020-03-17, 00:41
If you want CN with no cliché, then read son-con
LiTTleDRAgo
2020-03-17, 08:35
For some reason, there is so many "osananajimi-zamaa" series appeared in narou.
So many of them filled daily ranking and that kinda disgust me to even take a glance.
Anyone have any novel recommendation to read?
Any genre is fine as long as it's a fun read, For example:
俺は星間国家の悪徳領主！ n1976ey
マジカル★エクスプローラー n2413ep
ちょっと妹を舐めてくる n1168bv
2人で1人の不遇姫達は自由に生きたい～ n2459ey
^Just ignore all Zamaa stuffs, not worth it
Currently I'm only reading 2 novels
- 和風MMOでくノ一やってたら異世界に転移したので自重しない
- ホラー女優が天才子役に転生しました ～今度こそハリウッドを目指します！～
Both are very fun to read
Horror Joyuu especially already at Makoto Shinkai class imho
LiTTleDRAgo
2020-03-17, 12:59
-> ホラー女優が天才子役に転生しました ～今度こそハリウッドを目指します！～
Already read until the latest chapter.
-> 和風MMOでくノ一やってたら異世界に転移したので自重しない
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll start reading this right now.
^Horror Joyuu just escaped from the child rapist, so exciting~
The kunoichi one, it reminds me the excitement of taking down giant monster with many allies
Hundred people vs raid boss, and the MC is fulfilling her role as Ninja faithfully
Very refreshing when recent novels are just about 1 dude easily defeating ancient dragon
These are the web novel titles I've enjoyed and kept in my bookmarks, although most are probably known and read by you. Roughly ordered by how much I liked/recommend them:
Completed
Mushoku Tensei - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n9669bk/
Honzuki - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n4830bu/
Hyakumankai Tensei - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n0025fi/
Omae ga Kami wo Koroshitai nara - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n7775do/
Yogen no Keizaigaku - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n6472dl/
Watashi wa Tatakau Dungeon Master - http://ncode.syosetu.com/n0624dl/
Shounen Z - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n8362dk/
Meikyuu no Ou - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n0488v/
Zwei Rondo - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n0634bk/
Project Beauty - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n4628r/
Live Dungeon - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n6970df/
Shinigami wo Tabeta Shoujo - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5240bc/
Death March - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n9902bn/
(R18 Nocturne)
Kyokuchi Renai - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n1896br/
Geboku no Ore ga Moumoku no Chouwagamama Ojousama no Seidorei na Ken - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n7126cq/
Bokutachi no Kyoushitsu ni Ijime wa Nai - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n0170co/
Door Majin - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n8732co/
Oukoku e Tsuzuku Michi - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n3746ce/
Tomohame - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n2643dz/
Gang of Yuusha - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n4111da/
Junai x Ryoujoku Complex - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n0280z/
Lolicon Yuusha - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n5178cy/
Otousan wa Sentouin - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n2692cx/
Ongoing / abandoned
Kenkyo Kenjitsu - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n4029bs/
Lapis no Shinzou - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n4006r/
Ookami wa Nemuranai - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n3930eh/
Ore no Megane wa Tabun Sekai Seifuku Dekiru to Omou - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n4686ek/
Re:Zero - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n2267be/
Youmuin-san wa Yuusha ja Arimasen node - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n4202cb/
Horobi no Kuni no Seifukusha - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5677cl/
Seirei Gensouki - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1094bz/
Horror Joyuu ga Tensai Koyaku ni Tensei Shimashita - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n0230fu/
Shuuten no Isekai to Kengeki no Kishi - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n8242be/
Watashi no Juuboku - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n8801fh/
Mob Kousei no Ore - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n0112fi/
Kita no Toride nite - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n9981by/
NEET dakedo Hello Work - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5981bn/
Ore no Jinsei Hell Mode - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n2877u/
Sokushi Cheat - https://ncode.syosetu.com/n5691dd/
Meikyuu Kusotawake - https://kakuyomu.jp/works/1177354054885436251
Hige wo Soru - https://kakuyomu.jp/works/1177354054882739112
Mamahaha no Tsurego ga Moto-Kano datta - https://kakuyomu.jp/works/1177354054883783581
(R18 Nocturne)
Bishoujo wo Jouzu ni Nikubenki ni Suru Houhou - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n5050bw/
Zombie no Afureta Sekai de Ore dake ga Osowarenai - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n3271bm/
Koushaku Chakunan Koushoku Monogatari - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n9598df/
Ore no Imouto ga Saikou no Okazu Datta - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n2468et/
Nukegake Shite Moushiwake Arimasen - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n9485dy/
Hounousaka no Harem King - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n4776cb/
Omotta Ijou ni Toushi Nouryoku - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n8080cy/
Imouto ga Ji ni Natta no de - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n8819by/
Boku wa Inai - https://novel18.syosetu.com/n5759fz/
^Thanks, I see many of mine too
But when you give so many list, it's hard to discuss
^Thanks, I see many of mine too
But when you give so many list, it's hard to discuss
Well, it's mostly aimed at the fellow who asked for recommendations earlier.
Reading through the list I feel how much I have fallen out of JP WNs lately, I don't even know about a third. Though I have to say you have a pretty wide range of genres there, from Slice of Life fluff through horror up to Oukoku and Lolicon Yuusha. Actually, after reading a part of that last one (a part...) I seriously started worrying whether this is not illegal in my country. I know that things like Nabukov's Lolita are OK, but there has to be a border somewhere.
wanna ask, how many excluded tag narou can be used?
i input over 33 tag to be excluded but some wn not filtered. :v
^Why do you have 33 tags? Are you crazy?
Paste them over here
逆ハーレム ハーレム無し ts ハーレムなし ガールズラブ 非ハーレム ハーレム笑 俺TSUEEEE 俺TUEEEE ハーレム？ おっさん おじさん 俺tuee eee EEE テンプレ ボーイズラブ 俺つええ ハーレムは無し 敵TUEEEE ハーレム拒否 微ハーレム ざまぁ おねショタ ショタおね ハーレム禁止 お約束は破るもの グルメ ハーレム(?) ハーレム(無自覚) 女体化 チートプログラム TS ショタ 俺SUGEEE ビジネス
something like this i think ??
^LMAO
Most of them are tricks non-harem authors use to attract harem readers :heh:
ハーレム(?) usually still end up in harem tho so you should not exclude it
Also
-チートプログラム
-俺つええ
are rarely used so don't need that
おっさん おじさん are probably in the synopsis so you shouldn't exclude them too
onore non-harem author.
=
thanks for advise, will decrease some of that tag ==''a
^
Good Luck
New Rant :
The case of The Laws in Isekai being unclear
Most of the time, there's no description of the local law of the many area in isekai
Should we assume it's the same as on Earth?
But of what time period?
I mean many weird laws from the past and even now, depending of the area
Like prima nocta or weird laws from islamic countries
Isekai should have many more weird laws, at least from earthlings perspective
But MC never bothered to learn them
There are cases where MC murdered someone on self-defense, but it turns out the victim is actually a villain, so he wasn't arrested
So theoretically you can just kill anyone slightly bad, and find excuse like self-defense after the fact
Tho I don't even know whether the laws are being uphold, coz many people attack MC with weapon and intent to kill even in public places like adventurer guild
If the MC actually died, wouldn't they be arrested? Weird
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-20, 12:01
^ Some medieval laws were pretty bonkers by modern standards. Like, being a "vagrant" was illegal in some areas:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy
The Ordinance of Labourers 1349 was the first major vagrancy law in England and Wales. The ordinance sought to increase the available workforce following the Black Death in England by making idleness (unemployment) an offence. A vagrant was a person who could work but chose not to, and having no fixed abode or lawful occupation, begged. Vagrancy was punishable by human branding or whipping. Vagrants were distinguished from the impotent poor, who were unable to support themselves because of advanced age or sickness. In the Vagabonds Act 1530, Henry VIII decreed that "beggars who are old and incapable of working receive a beggar's licence. On the other hand, [there should be] whipping and imprisonment for sturdy vagabonds. They are to be tied to the cart-tail and whipped until the blood streams from their bodies, then they are to swear on oath to go back to their birthplace or to serve where they have lived the last three years and to 'put themselves to labour'. For the second arrest for vagabondage the whipping is to be repeated and half the ear sliced off; but for the third relapse the offender is to be executed as a hardened criminal and enemy of the common weal."
I also find it pretty bonkers how often there's settings where it's considered okay/normal for adventurers to attack each other and generally the guild or anyone doesn't get involved much. Like, for real? Murder / attempted murder for petty reasons is just ignored? At a time when what would be considered "minor" crimes today would likely get you a public flogging/branding or even execution?
I can't say I've seen a WN with a proper legal system.
I always wondered about that too. Espacially the adventures guild. Usually the offenders would be beaten up by the MC and much later some guards show up (if even at all) and take them away. Does the guild have no security system in place? Some hired thugs could potentially cut off the stream of newcomers causing a decline in workforce. Even more so since guilds are often portraied as being a vital part of peoples everydays lives. I can imagine there would be better alternatives than a place half filled with murders/rapists.
^^
^
Right?
The same situation works in Chinese Xianxia because it's being stated clearly that Cultivators/Immortals are beyond Mortals and they can do whatever they want and can only contended by other Immortals
But not in Japanese Isekai
The ruling class is always Royalties and Nobles
There should be clear defined rules in place
Even if those rules mostly only benefit nobles
That stuff is even worse when status screens and the "Appraisal" skill exist. Heck, most gates are equipped with some crystall ball capable of identifying criminals. At least those guys appraising the stuff the adventures bring back should have a high enough level to see through 99% of all criminals since they use their skill everyday.
Even more suprising is that equipment that conceals or alters ones status isnt banned. Even a monkey can think of more bad than good that kind of stuff will cause.
Ruki0089
2020-03-20, 12:59
The same situation works in Chinese Xianxia because it's being stated clearly that Cultivators/Immortals are beyond Mortals and they can do whatever they want and can only contended by other Immortals
Strangely, there is no incest in such world:heh:
I guess CN have more moral than JN
^ There is almost (almost because there is some "not real sister" kind) no incest in non-nocturne titles. I can't comment on CN 18+ fantasy as I have not ready any (no idea whether it is legal too).
What I find the strangest is how much the worlds are overflowing with bandits. And it's even in a world, where by staying outside of human cities/villages you are risking getting attacked by monsters and if you have enough power to fight monsters you might as well make money that way. There was even that stupid one where 70% of the population were bandits, like wtf, who are they even stealing from?
^Yea, rather than attacking people, they can group and attack monsters and sell the cores and parts for money
Why is such "vigilante" group not a thing in isekai is weird
@Ruki : Every society has it's norms I guess
That stuff is even worse when status screens and the "Appraisal" skill exist. Heck, most gates are equipped with some crystall ball capable of identifying criminals. At least those guys appraising the stuff the adventures bring back should have a high enough level to see through 99% of all criminals since they use their skill everyday.
Even more suprising is that equipment that conceals or alters ones status isnt banned. Even a monkey can think of more bad than good that kind of stuff will cause.
OMG! The orb that identifies criminal! That's so dumb!
You don't even need a judge anymore, just this single ball in the courtroom :heh:
And that orb's function is not to access database of criminals or something,
it literally knows whether you have ever committed a crime or not
That's GOD item right there
Why would anyone even think to commit crime with this shit existing?
The silly thing is, usually this orb only appeared in the story once, when the MC tries to enter a city the first time, after that, never appeared again.
SO DUMB!
With this one thing most human conflicts can be resolved, why is this orb not be used more!?
^ I imagine that it's mostly because it can be gamed. There are bound to be ways to do almost anything yet not get registered. Like rape, but first "persuading" the girl to agree or killing by proxy, etc. In that case if you are registered as a criminal you are unwanted, but 99% of criminals wouldn't be, because they know how to go around it.
On the matter of bandits, I imagine that the most likely you would get in such a world is lots of adventurers that make their money by killing monsters, but won't shy away to "offer" their protection for some "small" payment if they meet some wealthy guy who is obviously underprotected.
^ I imagine that it's mostly because it can be gamed. There are bound to be ways to do almost anything yet not get registered. Like rape, but first "persuading" the girl to agree or killing by proxy, etc. In that case if you are registered as a criminal you are unwanted, but 99% of criminals wouldn't be, because they know how to go around it.
That's dumb
But let's say that's possible
That means the entire system is compromised then and the orb would lose all credibility
The orb policy would be abolished in 1 week
^ Not really, if you are registered as criminals you really are criminal, so using the orb will work to dissuade at least those from entering the city. Considering how little trouble it is to use, even if it worked on only 10% it is still good. Also, murder might be pretty hard to game, so murderers will mostly be registered. Of course, you can pay someone to do it, but then you are pretty harmless in the city if noone else is gonna risk the orb by murdering for you.
^No dummy
If people know someone that is for certain a criminal, like Mafia Boss or something
Then when the army/police wants to capture him, he will just say
"Try that orb on me"
Of course it won't work coz he's using Rasty's trick
But since the orb is still a legal policy, that defense works and Mafia Boss is innocent no matter what
There's no way they keep this policy on, fool
Also many other problems like
"Killing loved one that's about to turn into zombie"
When he died he's still a human so the killer is murderer now
Zombies are rarely a thing as for the "try the orb thing", that just won't work if people know it is possible to go around the orb's detection. It's like if a murderer got caught by police and his defense was "take my fingerprints (or DNA), there are no such at the crime scene so I am innocent". The answer is: "no guy, you just had gloves, but we have eyewitnesses and video recording of the murder, so you are s****ed".
^Horrible analogy
Also you suck for questioning my Zombie example
This orb is a godly thing that can perfectly read someone's past
I don't know why the reaction is only "Blue if innocent" "Red if guilty" instead of showing the moment of crimes
The programming sucks
Anyway, there are many circumstances that need meticulous judgement
Such as :
-Indirect Murder
-Accidental Murder
-Unintentional Rape
-Exchanged Luggage
-Statute of Limitations
-That Zombie Thing (Mercy Killing)
If the orb behaves like reading from a system log, like [Player X killed Mr. Drump], then the orb will still turn red even if it was an accident
If the orb is truly omniscient, even if you pay people to murder, your test on the orb will still turn red too
And ain't it a bitch if the fucking orb still turns red after 50 years since you stole a fucking sandals?
^ The breadth of crimes registered by the orb differ greatly work from work, but sometimes it's only rape, murder and things of that severity. As for the capabilities, it's usually just reading from your status whether you have certain jobs or titles that you get for the crimes.
^Horrible analogy
Shame on you for not appreciating such a great thing.
Such as :
-Indirect Murder
Yep, depending on how indirect it might slip, still only false negative not positive.
-Accidental Murder
That's a crime now too though. And depending on whether it checks your intention at the moment (sometimes true) it might even be judged correctly (reason being, for example, saving system resources to check only the one moment, not everyone all the time).
-Unintentional Rape Wtf is that?
-Exchanged Luggage Simple stealing is oftentimes not considered and I imagine returning the thing (in reasonable time) would erase the crime.
And ain't it a bitch if the fucking orb still turns red after 50 years since you stole a fucking sandals?NO, don't use an example from that terribly written jumbled mess. In most novels just taking sandals won't register you as a criminal and I wouldn't be surprised if there existed a way to clear the criminal status under certain conditions (or it can just go away by itself in several years, not like most works last long enough for that to happen).
^OMG, just replace sandals with anything else mate, you got my point
Simple stealing is oftentimes not considered and I imagine returning the thing (in reasonable time) would erase the crime.
and I wouldn't be surprised if there existed a way to clear the criminal status under certain conditions (or it can just go away by itself in several years, not like most works last long enough for that to happen).
Problem is that such things never explained in any novels
Which is part of the problem I said before of "MC not trying to learn the Laws"
Yep, depending on how indirect it might slip, still only false negative not positive.
I mean you got the EXP from killing the thing so it's definitely positive
Wtf is that?
Like having sex with your wife, but she passed out, yet you don't stop
In certain perspective it might be considered rape
That's a crime now too though. And depending on whether it checks your intention at the moment (sometimes true) it might even be judged correctly (reason being, for example, saving system resources to check only the one moment, not everyone all the time).
Now as in Modern Earth?
Check Intention? It's omniscient then? Use it more frequently then!
^OMG, just replace sandals with anything else mate, you got my point
But it is important, there is a big difference whether you steal sandals (or an apple from a random tree) or purse containing all of his savings for the last 5 years. In the second case you definitely deserve it.
I mean you got the EXP from killing the thing so it's definitely positive Not for all means of killing you get EXP, I imagine if you get it you are a good candidate for murder (how do the wars work there though?).
Like having sex with your wife, but she passed out, yet you don't stop
In certain perspective it might be considered rape Modern standards and even then it would be iffy. Just a hundred years ago it was literally impossible to rape your wife (by law) no matter how much you tried.
Now as in Modern Earth?
Yes
Check Intention? It's omniscient then? Use it more frequently then!
There is big difference between "want's him dead + stabbed him = murderer" and judging every subtle behavior (like planning 3 months ahead for a hitman to kill him) unless you have literally thinking entity or you want to ban just thinking about killing someone (which would mean almost everyone would be criminal).
travelingbum
2020-03-22, 03:14
sadly hasn't updated in over half a year
シスコン強盗が異世界で大暴れ?
r18 incest rape ntr and if it continues to update would there be a TS tag?
lame with the death of main heroine and i guess the ^MC^there goes the title
The truth of Xianxia
https://i.imgur.com/q9ucrRJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/LgtwaJ8.png
Endscape
2020-03-22, 14:56
I don't suppose there's any way to read stories on Syosetu that have already been deleted, like Wayback Machine?
Wayback was cleared of syosetu stuff several months ago. So only chance of finding old deleted stuff is to see if you can find someone that downloaded the pdf before it was deleted.
More like, years ago. Now all the syosetsu sites are excluded from it.
I wonder if syosetsu put a claim or something.
Has it really already been years since the clear happened? Wow, my sense of time is completely out of whack.
In JP and CN, often MC received cheat and then makes accomplishments
But because other people don't know of that cheat, they think the MC is a genius instead
If that's the impression you're going with, then why not just make the MC an actual genius?
Like the template sword genius who explains things with sfx *swoosh*woosh*
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-23, 06:23
^ To be honest, it feels like the average (male) protagonist in an WN won't even get out of bed if they don't have a world breaking cheat. Or at least, they'll constantly complain if they don't have one.
Hard work? What's that? Is it tasty?
^^ It aims towards people with low self-esteem (and/or ability) for easier self insert. Unfortunately for arrogant egoists as I am it just makes self-insertion harder:heh:.
But more seriously, I wish there were more talented MCs. I know that it is always fun to go for rising from the lowest level, but you can still do that in 100 other ways than just having idiot + bullied gets a cheat.
^^ It aims towards people with low self-esteem (and/or ability) for easier self insert. Unfortunately for arrogant egoists as I am it just makes self-insertion harder:heh:.
But more seriously, I wish there were more talented MCs. I know that it is always fun to go for rising from the lowest level, but you can still do that in 100 other ways than just having idiot + bullied gets a cheat.
The issue is that when most webnovel authors do "talented MC's" they go completely overboard and make them super ultra genius' who have world-class martial art skill and perfect political savy. Which makes them a cheat character anyway and ruins the point of weak to strong type stories.
I especially dislike the characters having a full skillset, thus not really needing a party. Especially why the hell has every MC crafting skills? That just makes the story more boring because of the decreased interaction with the rest of the world as he doesn't need it (and is also pretty stupid considering that means they have to dedicate their efforts to two absolutely different areas). I don't mind the MC being genius in sword/magic/politics, but not all of them. It's so rare lately to have a party where every member is specialzied expert in something, instead of MC being expert in everything and everybody else kinda OK in one area.
dragon1412
2020-03-23, 19:49
I especially dislike the characters having a full skillset, thus not really needing a party. Especially why the hell has every MC crafting skills? That just makes the story more boring because of the decreased interaction with the rest of the world as he doesn't need it (and is also pretty stupid considering that means they have to dedicate their efforts to two absolutely different areas). I don't mind the MC being genius in sword/magic/politics, but not all of them. It's so rare lately to have a party where every member is specialzied expert in something, instead of MC being expert in everything and everybody else kinda OK in one area.
It depend for me, character that is all rounder is more interesting if they actually isn't OP, Ie, we see how they adapt to different situation and learn new skill set before eventually reach all rounder status. In the case of character is already high level or expert, it is better for the story flows if MC is specialized
I especially dislike the characters having a full skillset, thus not really needing a party. Especially why the hell has every MC crafting skills? That just makes the story more boring because of the decreased interaction with the rest of the world as he doesn't need it (and is also pretty stupid considering that means they have to dedicate their efforts to two absolutely different areas). I don't mind the MC being genius in sword/magic/politics, but not all of them. It's so rare lately to have a party where every member is specialzied expert in something, instead of MC being expert in everything and everybody else kinda OK in one area.
Every author's figured out that crafting skills are OP as they are necessary, but they fail to see that a shortcoming in the main character's skillset isn't a story flaw, but an opportunity for meaningful interactions.
It depend for me, character that is all rounder is more interesting if they actually isn't OP, Ie, we see how they adapt to different situation and learn new skill set before eventually reach all rounder status. In the case of character is already high level or expert, it is better for the story flows if MC is specialized
He's talking about how most crafter MC are as OP as a magician/hero like MC, if you create a support MC it's expected he'll search for a party/slaves to use his equipment and protect him while he creates or collects something, most authors avoid that and the resulting story tends to be boring, I have dropped more than 10 novels like that.
^Crafter MC especially reduces the need to interact with any shop
Which justifies hikkiing in base
Which makes it even more boring
I especially dislike the characters having a full skillset, thus not really needing a party. Especially why the hell has every MC crafting skills? That just makes the story more boring because of the decreased interaction with the rest of the world as he doesn't need it (and is also pretty stupid considering that means they have to dedicate their efforts to two absolutely different areas). I don't mind the MC being genius in sword/magic/politics, but not all of them. It's so rare lately to have a party where every member is specialzied expert in something, instead of MC being expert in everything and everybody else kinda OK in one area.
Exactly
It feels bad being in a party because you are way better than everyone else even at their specialties
The party just turns into your cheerleaders
So there's no options except being solo
^Crafter MC especially reduces the need to interact with any shop
Which justifies hikkiing in base
Which makes it even more boring
That tells me you only imagine a crafter as someone who does everything by himself, but what if the MC is an enchanter or can only reinforce weapons already created or is an herbalist etc etc.., he'll have to interact with everyone since he can't do everything alone, he'll also need a party, connections and probably a noble backing him up, that premise is already better than most novels out there.
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-23, 23:50
There's older series that start out as WN with proper division of labour, eg Dan Machi and Kono Suba. For series that started in last few years...
Girl Corps (n1896dc / Gacha wo Mawashite Nakama wo Fuyasu Saikyou no Bishoujo Gundan wo Tsukuriagero) has reasonably clear roles. MC is kinda backup tank - he has some magic items that he can use a little bit in battle but seems to be focused on tanking for now.
The Strange Adventure of a Broke Mercenary:
https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=151592
(MC is basically Guts, though setting is rather more low key and less torture porn)
Jujutsushi Wa Yuusha Ni Narenai:
https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=145558
You have one job and that's it. Unless you're a crazy yandere. Either way, suffer.
Ningen Fushin no Boukenshatachi ga Sekai o Sukuu Youdesu:
https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=154837
Probably others as well.
Tenzen12
2020-03-24, 01:14
Funny you mention Broke Mercenary given Lapis (heroine) one-woman party. :heh:
kari-no-sugata II
2020-03-24, 04:44
Funny you mention Broke Mercenary given Lapis (heroine) one-woman party. :heh:
I know. She can do that but generally sticks to her priestess role from what I've seen.
The priestess from Girl Corps also has tendencies to break her role...
Avrorrange
2020-03-24, 04:50
^^ It aims towards people with low self-esteem (and/or ability) for easier self insert. Unfortunately for arrogant egoists as I am it just makes self-insertion harder:heh:.
But more seriously, I wish there were more talented MCs. I know that it is always fun to go for rising from the lowest level, but you can still do that in 100 other ways than just having idiot + bullied gets a cheat.
THIS.
The worst part about it is that the MC keeps on insisting that he was an average person when he exhibits competence in leadership that exceeds genius level statesman in the real world. If you are as cunning and ruthless as you are in isekai then WTF did you fail in the real world?
Tenzen12
2020-03-24, 15:29
I know. She can do that but generally sticks to her priestess role from what I've seen.
The priestess from Girl Corps also has tendencies to break her role...
Well, she stick with playing her role only when there are witnesses, that's also only time when she behave as priestess. When there is only her, Loren and enemies (which is most times) she perfectly fine with frying them with big ass firestorm or use her bare hands gleefully tear their hearts from their bodies.
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