2009-03-31, 15:24 | Link #6102 |
Nuclear Fusion
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sky of stone, floor of flame.
Age: 37
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Tree?
*examines* Ahh, my cornucopia tree! Grows seventeen different types of tropical fruits, each as delicious as the real thing. Only problem is you never know which one it grows next.
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2009-03-31, 15:24 | Link #6103 |
物語は、もう、おしまい……?
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the Horizon
Age: 43
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Maybe this could help. This below is taken from the StrikerS manga, which is of course 100% canon.
Spoiler for Silver Retriever: Plagarised!:
If there's no difference between the two major magic systems cited since A's onwards, 7Arcs can save the trouble of designing a new system, one complete with its limitations. In fact, I do believe that the term "Midchildan magic" came to prominence after Belka was introduced in A's. Before it's simply... magic.
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Last edited by Estavali; 2009-03-31 at 15:46. Reason: Took out the name-calling because I'm supposed to be too old for such pettiness =3 |
2009-03-31, 15:32 | Link #6105 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Quotes from cards, quotes from datasheets, quotes from novels, observation of the anime... our evidence is pretty solid. Meanwhile, your evidence is non-existent. We're not attacking you, we just want to know where you got this information, much less claim it is canon. We've asked you this repeatedly but you just never answer the question!
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2009-03-31, 15:37 | Link #6106 | |
He Who Smites Shippers
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 36
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2009-03-31, 18:00 | Link #6107 | ||||
VxR Productions
IT Support
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What in Sparta happened here...
6 pages in the space of 8 hours? THIS IS... *gets preemptively kicked* Quote:
OT: Did you see my Reply or PMs? Quote:
well in his view. Quote:
most of them are silver or gray or blue. Quote:
it is either "oh shi-" or "oh lol". *begins marking of posts for Tatical Removal*
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Last edited by Saint X; 2009-03-31 at 18:29. |
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2009-03-31, 19:49 | Link #6108 |
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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*headdesk*
Just FYI, Cadians: Haru's on Yurichan's friendlist. Nothing to say except for twitching and a big "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over" at the running in circles. There is more to Nanoha than just yuri innuendo and NF. This thread is meant for those things, because every other Nanoha thread has been infiltrated by the forces of the Legion. *sighs* Also, Yuri? If you get an infraction, complaining about it to us is barking up the wrong tree. Go and talk to the mod who gave you the infraction.
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2009-03-31, 19:55 | Link #6109 | ||
ANTI-Nonsense
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Here I go again...Devices and Barrier Jackets Oh My!
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Spoiler for J-Easy's Treatise on Magical Devices:
Have fun. Quote:
Assuming the Nanoverse Barrier Jacket model, essentially the SCAR-G's Barrier Jacket does output its own passive "Field Barrier". If this was Enforcerverse, I could specify exactly what kind it was, but since this is Nanoverse, I am going to keep it generic. However, in the interest of game balance, and the fact, it's a device manufactured legally, I am going to say that this Field Barrier in particular is attuned to "energy"-based attacks, a la Divine Buster and Divine Shooters. Now, a Barrier Jacket's "Class" rating to me entails both protection and a level of battle readiness. At Class-IV, you're pretty much going to War, you're basically stereotypical SPEESH MERINES / Master Chief, and it's a pretty big and hefty program / formula that's going to take up a lot of HD space, since it offers the best protection and has a slew of built-in features. But what does this all mean in practical terms, i.e. what's the catch? The SCAR-G can safely "tank" one hit from a AAA-rated offensive attack, e.g. just plain Starlight Breaker, essentially the equivalent of a energy "Cannon" round. The Field Barrier will be completely destroyed and the physical Barrier Jacket will probably lose armor integrity down to 70% or less, but you'd still be able to carry on fighting. Take a moment aside to use Restoration and you'll be good as new to keep fighting. Now an S rated attack like Starlight Breaker+ is cutting it close You'd probably want to bust out the Round Shield too at least and pray you suffer a graze or an indirect hit instead. A direct hit though...I think with a Round Shield plus the armor and field barrier rating is enough to tank a hit...but the devicer will pretty much be naked afterwards. If they're lucky, they'll still have 5% or less armor integrity left. If they've got bad luck, BJ and device are completely FUBAR'd, in which case you're pretty much screwed. As for the actual Barrier Jacket, it's pretty darn tough as Class IVs go. Impervious to essentially "Hand Gun" and "SMG" calibre attacks, strongly resistant to "Rifle" calibre, "Shotgun" and "Machine Gun" calibre attacks could mean bad news, and "Heavy Weapons" and "High Explosives" calibre are without a doubt effective depending on how big you go and the yield. And yes, the SCAR-G's BJ is better designed to repel energy based attacks than physical bullets, since it's still built with an inevitable fight with Mid-Childan mages in mind after dispatching their screen of Belka-type mages. That is, it's Field Barrier offers very little protection, if not none at all, against bullets. Bullets pass right through the barrier like it's not there. On the other hand, at least the BJ itself is still tough as nails. However, a sniper with a specialist anti-material rifle could pose a serious threat, e.g. BOOM!HEADSHOT!, but you'd have to be using at least 14.5x114mm, the Soviet anti-tank and heavy machine gun round, to have a chance of scoring a one-hit kill. I personally recommend 20mm or bigger, since the thing with Barrier Jackets, after all, is that they have tendency to explode like reactive armor and damage tends to be spread out evenly over the BJ. Hence, it usually takes multiple hits or an extremely concentrated attack to score a wound or a kill. Also, even though, the SCAR-G's BJ is a hard suit. It doesn't offer any special protection against melee weapons honestly, nor does it enhance your strength. So getting hit by spear, hammer, etc., is still going to hurt like if they manage to pierce your BJ. In fact, Hammers are particularly nice since they don't have to penetrate the BJ, they just have to hit you and you're going to be hurting for obvious reasons. Good luck actually pulling it off though, since someone with the SCAR-G, if they see you charging, and the moment you come within 4 meters of them? That's Kinesis range = e.g. LIFT + OVERKILL + Concussion Bomb = I win. Oh, and the Barrier Jacket doesn't offer any additional protection against binds. If you get bind'ed, except to go down fast, and have to manually decode the sucker yourself. See, it was something of a design oversight, as using bind-based attacks in a War-time situation, considering the point is to kill your enemy, not capture them, usually. All that said, allow me to tally out the list of Cons for the SCAR-G, BJ and practical performance related: 1. High Magus Aptitude required - need at least B++, recommended A. 2. Has no big gun attacks or fancy spells per say. 3. BJ is not flight proficient. 4. Difficult to use in combat since you have to be able to manage the cooldowns for your various spells well, know when to use 'em, and how to chain them together for the best result. 5. Lacking the extra punch needed to defeat Mid-types in a shootout. 6. Has to get close into CQB range to be effective; therefore, teamwork is paramount in allowing a squad to close in and engage with another squad. 7. BJ is a solid piece of kit, but you'll still get killed if someone drops 3 tons of car on you obviously, 65 tons of main battle tank rolls over you = SPLAT, or they manage to shove 2 feet of steel, real or magical, into you. 8. BJ's Field Barrier offers little or no protection against solid projectiles. 9. Offers no strength enhancement. 10. BJ offers no additional protection against Bind-type spells. I can't think of anything else that's wrong with it. This is, after all, a top of the line piece of military hardware. Sure, it doesn't hold a candle to an officer's custom-made Device, but for grunts and most folks, it's pretty darn solid. @Lowe: Wow, that's pretty nice, and I dig her full tactical getup. I am kinda tempted to give Mai a cameo role or appearance in the Enforcer-verse. Chainswords is always a good way to leave an unforgettable first impression. @In General: I am gonna agree with Goose, the Anti-Pairing Brigade, and the rest of us who are sane. OC is NOT a place for ShippingTripFaggotry. Keep that to the Relationship and FanFic threads, please, for the love of sanity.
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2009-03-31, 20:17 | Link #6110 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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JamesEdwards: ok, i liked your thoughts on Device, they rejoin mine on much of it.
Only problem with it is in nanohaverse (not your brew verse) it's hinted that magic is not radioactive in th StrikerS manga (chap 2 page six onemanga). As for your Barrier Jacket...a heavily defensing one, uh. I don't find any problem with it, especially as you hinted (but i may be wrong) that it takes a B+ rank full attention just to have it. |
2009-03-31, 20:30 | Link #6111 | |
ANTI-Nonsense
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Worst case scenario, it's because the creators say so, and I should just nod my head and stop trying to understand canon. Personally, I like my magic radioactive and with side effects because it's so much more fun. And really? It only become radioactive AFTER you use it. In my home brew verse, Magic is perfectly normal and happy in its natural state. It's when you use it that it becomes unhappy and vengeful.
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2009-03-31, 21:59 | Link #6112 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
~ Your Smile ~
Author
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 346Pro
Age: 38
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What an awful smell of laser burnt posts. I wonder if the mods already had a hay day with the threads...
Ah well, it's been a long time since I've done this, and I guess might as well... [TRANSCENSION!] ...AHAHAHAHA! LET'S GO! ZENRYU ZENKAI DA!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Quote:
But that's where the speculation ends. In the StrikerS epilogue and then its sequel, StrikerS Soundstage X, Teana is seen in those black uniforms of Enforcer, so we can see for certain that the black uniform of Fate, however coincidentally matching her taste for fashion, is meant for wider use. You could even joke that she wanted to be an Enforcer (partly) because she liked the uniform! As well as other characters, like Vita, were in the blue-white of the Air cadre, so Nanoha's too is metafictionally meant for wider use. Quote:
When official sources are so messy, you begin to doubt the quality of "journalism" and the ability for you to even use any of them to back your stand up. So, we go back to basics. Tsuzuki has neatly dodged the issue in every interview so far. Tsuzuki's stance is therefore the same as everyone else in summation: "It's gonna be vague, anything could happen, anything will happen, you can keep on wishing it'll happen, but I won't tell you if it will. Just buy my works and keep following, cos you may find your answer in future. But why should I tell you ever, when I'm doing this because I need your money or I'd go hungry!" As Clinton once said, "It's the economy, Stupid." Quote:
Kaprika/Cedric/Teana love triangle (Fairly recent addition of mine) Zone/Precia (Nighty; Alicia had to come from somewhere) Arisa/Artei (Mine; the epitomy of a Kugimiya Byon pairing! ) Suzuka/Moriyama (Mine; a forbidden love between a teacher and his student) Vice/Dieci (One-off crack of mine) Karlheim/Deed (Mine; a forbidden one-sided attraction between siblings not related by blood) Serena/Hayate (Aaron008R; Idolization) Karlheim/Fate (Mine; a love born from a promise to Alicia) Quote:
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Case 2: I'm now studying in Perth. Anita is studying in Singapore. Are we not in a relationship? Last I checked, I am still screaming that Anita-is-the-best-wife-in-the-entire-galaxy-swing!!! before throwing my opponents out of the thread. Quote for Truth. *ruuuuuuunz* I recognize that Kha has always read like a walkthrough to a harem game, which was my intention but completely debased the source material. Tempest worked for it, and earned it. Kha earned in through far greater efforts, but whats the point when the author only has stamina to do a walkthrough? And what's the further point when any new attempt gets snotted on and ignored? Kha does not exist. Karlheim does. But I doubt if he can ever escape the creator's curse. Quote:
It's not blown up, it's because you have committed the cardinal sin of challenging widely-accepted official sources. I don't know if you are just trolling us, or you really are trying to be Galileo, but either way, from my own experience, expect fierce resistance. It's a reflex trained from half a decade of battling NxF fanatics and trolls led by BPHaru, and in the OC thread, this place is a barracks full of veterans who stand for neutrality and ambiguity, and will fight to the death to defend the sanctity of the thread. So far, by virtue of your friends, your circular logic, your sources (or lack there of) and your stubborness, we have little to be forgiving about. But I feel you have something; to have the guts to come in this town so roudy means either you are a fool, or you have something to show us. Quote:
Another likely theory is that both RH and RHMs were inspired by an even older proto-device. To use a mecha example, like how Wing Gundam and the Leos are actually twice removed cousins and descendents of the Wing Zero Gundam. Divergent evolution, my dear Watson. Quote:
Just so you know, the world does not revolve around Nanoha, Fate, RH and Bardiche. Not when the universe got expanded to the point that we are now dealing with Nanoha Obasan, Captain Vivio, and To Aru Silver no Rescue Ranger Subaru in each their own separate and official storylines. In fact, not since Lindy and Chrono appeared in S1. Like how Gundam has gone beyond Amuro Ray and Char Aznable for 2 decades now. Quote:
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Another likely theory is that both RH and RHMs were inspired by an even older proto-device. To use a mecha example, like how Wing Gundam and the Leos are actually twice removed cousins and descendents of the Wing Zero Gundam. Divergent evolution, my dear Watson. Doesn't disprove your's, but its a bit hard to call it Belka in that aspect. If the Chinese ripped off the French in car making, why do we still call the cars they make Chinese? But they aren't classed as Intelligent Devices; while they can speak, most of them are not IDs by classification. I know Strada and maybe Mach Caliber buck the trend, and those two I believe are Belka devices. So yes, Belka devices can be Intelligent Devices, but just because they speak doesn't mean they are classed as ID and not the Armed Devices they are. This is seen in the various identity cards 7Arcs have been releasing in their DVD boxsets. Basically, an Armed Device has a limited AI and some automation, but Intelligent Devices go 1 step further, having full AI powers and automation, at the expense of increased cost and increased sensitivity to damage. (This btw is DVD booklet knowledge too, so I'll leave it to Keroko and her IS Silver Retriever if you have further doubts.) Just FYI: Canon has provided via DVD Booklets that Belka traditionally favor Unison Devices rather than Intelligent Devices. This explains the device make-up of the Wolkenritter, a group representing Ancient Belka thinking. Quote:
You've so far demonstrated a very poor grasp of canon information, I tell you now. That's not inherently bad since ignorance is such a common commodity, but you've got to be much more open-minded and see what we have to show. As for Bardiche, we know that Precia made Linith, and Linith made Bardiche. Fate uses Midchilda magic; so does Linith who trained her and Precia who whipped her. Sources include DVD booklet, Soundstage and even the Novel, despite all the strange canon conflicts, agree on this. At all points we only see Midchilda; where does Belka come into play? Furthermore, Fate isn't very old (19 now right?). Neither is Linith or Precia, in Season One; both women clearly aren't more than in their 30s. How is it then possible that, according to info booklet in StrikerS Soundstage X, the warring years ended around 150 years ago? Bardiche could not have been made during that era, and not to mention DVD booklets defined the Alicia incident to have happened 15 years before StrikerS, in MC 0050, when it is clearly the era of the Midchilda. Given your record thus far, I believe I need more to convince you. But I only can provide you a more quant answer if you tell us what you define as a Belka device. Because your assertions are certainly flying in the face of official knowledge. Quote:
I don't know whether RH is a Belka device by origin, but certainly Bardiche is not. Furthermore, Fate isn't very old (19 now right?). Neither is Linith or Precia, in Season One; both women clearly aren't more than in their 30s. How is it then possible that, according to info booklet in StrikerS Soundstage X, the warring years ended around 150 years ago? Bardiche could not have been made during that era, and not to mention DVD booklets defined the Alicia incident to have happened 15 years before StrikerS, in MC 0050, when it is clearly the era of the Midchilda. At all points we only see Midchilda; where does Belka come into play? Quote:
Anyway, if you want to go by origin, then all Devices are Alhazredian. Quote:
In the court of Law, this will not do. And trust me this is the court of Law. Quote:
These are the 4 symbols of Midchilda: Midchilda uses 4 Greek alphabets, whereas Belka uses 3 gibberish. The sigils themselves prove they are different. And here's the deal: You don't see Midchilda devices using triangles with 3 gibberish, and you don't see Belka devices using a circle with 4 Greek letters on it. This also shows that the Devices themselves can be discriminated according to the magic cast as with the mages/knights casting it. Quote:
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Bardiche has been defined in summation of booklet and soundstage to be made by Linith, Precia's familiar, circa MC 0060, around the time when Fate was born and being trained by Linith. I don't see a single shred of evidence on your side. It looks like it be YOU who is guessing, punk. Quote:
Once again, it's your theory. Quote:
Wrong, it is you who is being oppressive of our viewpoint. Quote:
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As I said above, the world does not revolve around Nanoha, Fate, Bardiche and RH. *puts down chaingun, lights cigarette and lets off a puff* I'm done saying my piece. Get out of my thread now, punk. All 6 pages you spawned were off-topic and should have been in the General Discussion thread where you'd have been much more welcome, and have the right people to argue against. If you aren't interested in making fandom, if you aren't interested in being the least cooperative and respect other viewpoints, if you come to my town again whining about how we are mistreating you, I'll personally see you to Hell. *stubs out cigarette* Go ahead, punk. Make my day.
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Last edited by MeisterBabylon; 2009-03-31 at 22:46. |
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2009-03-31, 22:55 | Link #6113 | |
~ I Will ~
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Ko-ko-kono BAKA INU!!! Sacred Commander guns Kha down with heavy bolter. |
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2009-03-31, 23:46 | Link #6115 |
Residential Nutcase
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Outer Cadia
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@Thread: To play Devil's advocate for a while, I can certainly see how he can come to some of his ideas (At least I think so) and he does have a point on some things. For example, while in general intelligent devices have Mid Magic Sigils and Armed Devices have Belkan Magic Sigils, does that mean that the Intelligent Devices are Mid Childa type or the Mage is a Mid type and also, are Armed Devices Belka types or the Mage is a Belka type?
My belief (currently) is that Devices are neutral types and what Sigil shown is because of its owner's type. Strada and Mach Caliber for example are made on Mid Childa and by Shario who isn't a mage at all (at least we seen no indication that she is a mage). But what Magical Sigils do we see being Used? Belka/Neo-Belka type. As far as I remember, I don't recall either of them displaying a Mid Childa Sigil at all. One example is Hayate during StrikerS where her limiters were released to S rank. I'm sure most of us know that Schwertkruez is a Armed device but what is the Sigil used to cast Hræsvelgr? Mid Childa Sigils. Does that mean the device is a Mid type despite us seeing it used Belka type Sigils as well? No. If you say the Mid sigil is because of a spell, you are correct. The sigil is because of a Mid spell casted by a Belka Mage-Knight. While it is speculation, RH's origins are shrouded in mystery. All we know is that Yuuno found it at a dig site iirc and he's a Mid type mage. While Nanoha displayed a Mid Childa Sigil at first activation, is it because the device is originally a Mid type device or did Yuuno formatted it to a Mid type device? There is a possibility that it could have been a Belka type Intelligent device initially (Although personally I don't think its true) but reformatted to Mid Childa type. As for Bardiche, I have to agree with everyone. Its not Belka Manufacture at all. |
2009-04-01, 02:16 | Link #6117 | |
VxR Productions
IT Support
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I think that RH is either a long lost family heirloom found years later and the family in question is not even the Scrya. RH might actually be somone else's long lost staff as well. or probably thrown away after serving it's initial purpose. There are a lot of ways @ Keroko: Did you recieve my PMs or get me reply on the post you made to me?
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hayaurion, kaonland, keroland, khrack, original content |
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